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3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:45 am
by aronf13
Let's say i can either buy...

Massive, Absynth & FM8
or...
Zebra, Ace & Diva

And I can't mix and match synths from the 2 groups.

How do these groups of instruments compare to each other as bundles?

- taken together, which group of synths has a steeper learning curve?
- which group is easier to learn sound design from the ground up on?
- which group of synths covers more ground in terms of types of synthesis?
- which group is generally more suited for preset surfing?
- which group do you think allows for a wider palette of sound when taken together?
- if i were to get one group of synths vs. the other group, what sorts of sounds would i have more difficulty making, or would be more likely to be missing from my music?
- which company do you feel is better at designing more intuitive UI designs?
- cumulatively, which group has a heavier CPU load?

I know there's a lot of vstsynth comparison threads everywhere, but felt these questions were different enough to warrant its own post.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:54 am
by OJ KARDASHIAN
Image

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:48 am
by Machinesworking
I'm going to completely ignore your either/or bullshit and say that you Need:

Zebra
Absynth
and
Diva

Massive is good, but Diva and Zebra, plus a little Absynth beat it at what it does.

FM8 is cool but Absynth is deeper, and Zebra can do a lot of the same sounds.

Ace is great but Diva and Absynth, plus Zebra cover it and more.

Learning curve wise Absynth, FM8, and Zebra are the hardest to learn.
Diva is dead simple to understand, Ace is not simple, but easy to find great mistakes with, and Massive is fairly intuitive as well.

Company wise, U-He is by far the superior choice. I have 10 year old software they support, no abandonware with them, they're going to offer an upgrade to Zebra 3 for peanuts, and generally are very responsive to support requests. Though to be fair to Native Instruments, U-He is a one of a kind company that way, maybe Camel Audio is as good, and that's about it as far as support. :)

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:01 am
by gnurf
If you're even considering 3 NI products, Komplete will save you a few bucks and get you even more toys. Guitar Rig isn't a bad addition to anything (don't let the name fool you into thinking it has only one purpose).

If you're buying one thing at a time because you don't have a ginormous chunk of change available at once, go with Diva first. Then take Machinesworking's advice.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:13 am
by JayNiko
Don't forget about Razor synth from NI )

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:24 am
by gnurf
Oh, yeah. Razor. Or as I like to call it: The CPU burn-in test :)

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:57 am
by snugglepuff
Machinesworking pretty much just laid it down. I'd take it a step further and say that the conversation's over as soon as you mention Zebra. While the 3 NI's each excel at a certain type of thing, Zebra can be as ballsy as Massive, do beautiful FM, or lush soundscapes and plucky sounds like Absynth, while having it's own character and an overall sound that imo is crisper and has better presence than the others.

That said, there is a learning curve, and the browser system won't help you pick out the perfect preset quite like the NI synths will. But I think you'll find it's more intuitively laid out than Absynth and easier to start on than FM8.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:27 am
by JayNiko
gnurf wrote:Oh, yeah. Razor. Or as I like to call it: The CPU burn-in test :)
Btw, sometimes I run 4-5 instances of Razor (MacBook Pro 13", i5, 4GB), no problem )

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:32 am
by gnurf
Razor's not a problem on my new system, but my old C2D laptop definitely struggled ;)

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:50 am
by Sibanger
JayNiko wrote:
gnurf wrote:Oh, yeah. Razor. Or as I like to call it: The CPU burn-in test :)
Btw, sometimes I run 4-5 instances of Razor (MacBook Pro 13", i5, 4GB), no problem )
Diva is the ultimate CPU destroyer ;)

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:23 pm
by glitchrock-buddha
Sibanger wrote:
JayNiko wrote:
gnurf wrote:Oh, yeah. Razor. Or as I like to call it: The CPU burn-in test :)
Btw, sometimes I run 4-5 instances of Razor (MacBook Pro 13", i5, 4GB), no problem )
Diva is the ultimate CPU destroyer ;)
Not as bad as Monark. (comparing mono obviously because Monark is mono only)

I don't understand why you'd ever be limited to these combinations so I can't fathom the question. It also depends on what other synths you already have or if you're starting from scratch. None of the u-he synths have any kind of sampling or granular functions like Absynth so that might be important. Otherwise Diva and Zebra would be top choices. So I'd agree with MW.

The thin gis those komplete synths can be bought so cheap. I've sold an earler Komplete for around 200 bucks which included all three of those synths plus Reaktor, Guitar Rig and all the rest. So price will never be equivalent for the u-he synths which don't lose their value much or get bundled.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:43 pm
by deva
- taken together, which group of synths has a steeper learning curve?

about even I would say


- which group is easier to learn sound design from the ground up on?

the u-he synths


- which group of synths covers more ground in terms of types of synthesis?

an edge to u-he...
Absynth can load basic samples and does granular which none of the 3 u-he synths do
ACE does audio rate modulations you cannot do with any of the NI synths
Zebra you can do additive and draw your own partials. You can also draw your own waveforms and make your own wavetables.
Diva models classic analogue synths which none of the NI synths do


- which group is generally more suited for preset surfing?

NI has the edge there


- which group do you think allows for a wider palette of sound when taken together?

u-he (both are wide ranged)


- if i were to get one group of synths vs. the other group, what sorts of sounds would i have more difficulty making, or would be more likely to be missing from my music?

depends on what you want... both a very competent...


- which company do you feel is better at designing more intuitive UI designs?

overall u-he ... Massive is an excellent GUI, but Absynth aint (NI has improved)


- cumulatively, which group has a heavier CPU load?

u-he - Diva uses the most



IMO the u-he trio is a no brainer
Diva is the best analogue emulation currently available (the sound is gorgeous)
ACE with its audio rate modulation gives you something none of the others do
Zebra lets you combine FM, subtractive, wavetable, additive in a semi-modular design

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:46 pm
by deva
Machinesworking wrote:
Ace is great but Diva and Absynth, plus Zebra cover it and more.
Actually, they don't... none of the other synths in question do the sort of freely wired audio-rate modulations that ACE allows. ACE can make sounds none of the others can

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:51 pm
by 3dot...
I'd go the NI route...

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:38 pm
by glitchrock-buddha
aronf13 wrote: - taken together, which group of synths has a steeper learning curve?
NI
aronf13 wrote: - which group is easier to learn sound design from the ground up on?
U-He
aronf13 wrote: - which group of synths covers more ground in terms of types of synthesis?
NI
aronf13 wrote: - which group is generally more suited for preset surfing?
NI
aronf13 wrote: - which group do you think allows for a wider palette of sound when taken together?
NI
aronf13 wrote: - if i were to get one group of synths vs. the other group, what sorts of sounds would i have more difficulty making, or would be more likely to be missing from my music?
The u-he synths you mention are quite capable of producing analog hardware type sounds. There's a hardware type quality to u-he synths that is hard to find in other soft synths. Diva in particular has the closest vibe to hardware out there.
With the NI synths you get quite some variations in synthesis types, especially with absynth due to the granular, plus it has lots of cool effects and is quite amazing at soundscapes and evolving sounds.
aronf13 wrote: - which company do you feel is better at designing more intuitive UI designs?
U-He
aronf13 wrote: - cumulatively, which group has a heavier CPU load?
U-He

But I still don't understand comparing these combinations. Those NI synths can be bought pretty cheap (especially in Komplete). The U-He ones don't lose much value. You'll pay much more for those U-He synths. I would judge each synth individually and mix and match.