32bit vs 64 bit

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
444pio
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32bit vs 64 bit

Post by 444pio » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:51 am

Is it worth it to upgrade to 64 bit, live 9.
It takes forever for Live9 32-bit to open up my default song, which is blank, just routing of maschine and Battery tracks.
My only concernis that I wont be able to use Sylenth in 64-bit mode, which is 32-bit.
That aside, will i notice a increase in performacne and be able to run more shit in 64 bit??

XSIMan
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by XSIMan » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:13 am

Live 9 32bit is same performance as Live 9 64bit.

The diference is if you open 4GB of sampled instruments into Live 32bit it will crash due to Live 32bit being limited to 3.2GB of RAM use.

Live 9 64bit will allow mixes to be large as 32GB the latest desktop motherboards are limited to 32GB but live could probably use even more if the tech was available.

Some 32bit plugins can run in live 64bit using Jbridge some run and some are not perfect.
Without jbridge none of your 32bit plugs will work in Live 64bit.

444pio
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by 444pio » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:22 am

I run Live9 now in 32 bit mode, and when I check in Activity Monitor, it usually goes into 4 to 5 gigs of RAM being used.
How is that possible if 32-bit can only handle 3.2 RAM??

Timbeaux
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by Timbeaux » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:15 am

XSIMan wrote:
Live 9 64bit will allow mixes to be large as 32GB the latest desktop motherboards are limited to 32GB but live could probably use even more if the tech was available.
there are 64 GB motherboards available

fishmonkey
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by fishmonkey » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:54 am

444pio wrote:I run Live9 now in 32 bit mode, and when I check in Activity Monitor, it usually goes into 4 to 5 gigs of RAM being used.
How is that possible if 32-bit can only handle 3.2 RAM??
how much RAM 32 bit Live can use depends on what your computer and operating system is. the absolute maximum is 4GB.

also, on a machine with a 64 bit operating system, although each individual 32 bit app is limited to 4 GB, the system itself can use more than 4 GB, since you can have multiple apps running.

AaronYeo
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by AaronYeo » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:59 am

I was super excited when Ableton released Live 9 and a 64-bit version, for that reason; more memory.

But then I found out a lot of the older (or just less-maintained) plugins were only available in 32-bit, and that I lost the ability to use them in 64-bit Live 9. There are ways around this, namely bridges that let you run 32 bit plugins in 64-bit environments (and vice versa I think) but I went ahead and bought myself the 32-bit again and I rarely run into memory problems.

Rarely, but it does happen. It does however provide me incentive to streamline my system (avoiding unnecessarily high voice counts, extra samples, mono samples, etc)

bytheriver
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by bytheriver » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:51 am

I installed and set up 64bit all chuffed with my 16gb of ram. Turns out a load of things I use and need only work in 32bit and it was more trouble than it was worth, so I had to uninstall it, reinstall and setup 32bit.

Moosebear
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by Moosebear » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:40 pm

bytheriver wrote:I installed and set up 64bit all chuffed with my 16gb of ram. Turns out a load of things I use and need only work in 32bit and it was more trouble than it was worth, so I had to uninstall it, reinstall and setup 32bit.
Wow that sucks. Perhaps that's the main reason why Ableton's instructions state that the 32-bit version is the preferred one for most users.

Angstrom
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by Angstrom » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:53 pm

bytheriver wrote:I installed and set up 64bit all chuffed with my 16gb of ram. Turns out a load of things I use and need only work in 32bit and it was more trouble than it was worth, so I had to uninstall it, reinstall and setup 32bit.
Huh?

I have both installed, in different folders. I use 32bit until I really need to use the 64 bit version, at which point I freeze any 32 bit plugins which aren't available in 64 bit. Then I just open the project in the x64 version. Simple.
The are some pitfalls, such as : I can't get video working at all I the 64 bit version (windows), I tried and tried for days. Mac shod work fine though. But other than that I do actually see some CPU benefits in 64 bit, there shouldn't be, but sometimes there are. I have no idea why.

UltimateOutsider
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by UltimateOutsider » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:49 pm

444pio wrote:Is it worth it to upgrade to 64 bit, live 9.
It takes forever for Live9 32-bit to open up my default song, which is blank, just routing of maschine and Battery tracks.
My only concernis that I wont be able to use Sylenth in 64-bit mode, which is 32-bit.
That aside, will i notice a increase in performacne and be able to run more shit in 64 bit??
I did benchmarks between 32-bit and 64-bit Live 9 and found that 64-bit Live 9 both launched and loaded projects several seconds faster than 32-bit. (Also used a bit more RAM.)

Other than the ability to load bigger projects without bridging, that's the only benefit I've seen, although Andy from Cytomic has said that going 64-bit all the way offers the potential for things to run better, but that's on a case-by-case basis.

I still have both versions installed, but I've gone 64-bit all the way for both Live and Cubase. I ditched all my 32-bit-only plugins. Didn't lose anything I couldn't accomplish with the rest of my plugins, so I haven't bothered with bridging or anything.

XSIMan
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by XSIMan » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:32 pm

The latest intel desktop CPU's can handle a max of 32GB RAM see intels website to go more than that you will have to buy Server CPUs and motherboards.

3.2GB is the max Live 32bit can use with windows 7 and 8 64bit I've tested it many times and it always crashes at that amount watching the resource monitor for just Live. Ableton support also confirm this. Overall a 64bit OS can use far more but 32bit aps are limited if they are 32bit.

Just install both versions and test 32bit plugs in Live 64bit with Jbridge.

444pio
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by 444pio » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:45 am

I just completed a project and was using 5.30Gb RAM in Live 9 32-bit.
I use a MAcbook Pro.(has 8gb RAM )The Activity Monitor shows 5.32 RAM used. So how is this possible?
I'm not complaining, I just dont understand how I'm able to get away with using so much more RAM than you say that I can.

fishmonkey
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by fishmonkey » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:59 am

i explained it above. each individual 32 bit app is limited to 4 GB. but your operating system is 64 bit so the whole system can use more than 4 GB.

in your case Live is not using more than 4 GB (you can see this by looking at the actual Live process in the Activity Monitor, rather than the total system usage).

eyeknow
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by eyeknow » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:27 am

One thing I noticed: Battery.

So a question, is this EVERY time you load live or just the first time? Battery 4? Reason I ask is that battery takes FOREVER and whole year to load even on my pretty good x64 system.

Also, maschine takes a while to load here too.

XSIMan
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Re: 32bit vs 64 bit

Post by XSIMan » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:16 pm

Sampled instruments take a long time to load. Slate SSD 4 for example loads 1.5GB of drum kit samples into the ram just for one drum kit.
Battlefield 3 loads around 1.5 - 2GB when it loads one map.

A soft synth with no samples loads around 20 - 200 MB into the RAM.

The fastest hardrives today are PCI-e based SSD you can buy them in shops now they plug into a spare PCI-e graphics card slot and are twice the speed of the best SSD.

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