Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

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re:dream
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Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by re:dream » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:31 pm

So I want to be able to introduce tremolo effects in Tension with after touch

It should be simple.

I have a lorra nice Tension presets just begging for tremolo

I have Max for Live Expression control

With Expression Control, I can map my aftertouch from the Push to.... what?

I know I can bend the pitch with the touch strip. BGut I can't for the lifeof me figure out where that touch strip is mapped to.

It must be some paramater that alters the basic pitch of the 'strong' in tension in a smooth way.

But where?

Any help will be appreciated.

deva
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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by deva » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:57 pm

Map Aftertouch to modwheel... then enable vibrato and set to taste and set mod to the high side...

You can also use the touch strip to control pitch... and the pitchbend range is set on the global page

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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by re:dream » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:26 am

How do I map aftertouch to modwheel?
Maybe I am looking in the wrong place, but I don't see a modwheel parameter in either the Tension or Electric instruments

When I search for Mod Wheel in the Live manual, it appears to be mentioned only once, in the Operator section.

deva
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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by deva » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:21 am

The Finn wrote:How do I map aftertouch to modwheel?
Maybe I am looking in the wrong place, but I don't see a modwheel parameter in either the Tension or Electric instruments

When I search for Mod Wheel in the Live manual, it appears to be mentioned only once, in the Operator section.
In tension, modwheel is hardwired to vibrato, with user control over mod depth (including 0)... so map your AT to Modwheel, and there ya go!

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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by re:dream » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:21 am

deva wrote: In tension, modwheel is hardwired to vibrato, with user control over mod depth (including 0)... so map your AT to Modwheel, and there ya go!
:oops: I am so sorry, but this is where I get stuck. How do I map after touch to Mod wheel if there is no mod wheel button or value in Tension on Electric? I am clearly missing something. :oops:

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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by re:dream » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:08 pm

OK, I am mapping Aftertouch to Detune. It is good enough for now. It produces the guitar 'string bending' effect I want even though it is a bit, er, out of tune. I will see how it goes...

Martyn
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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by Martyn » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:37 pm

I made a little max for live utility to deal with this sort of thing, you just have to stick it before an instrument and both knobs turn up as mappable in push. One is permanently mapped to modwheel, the other scales aftertouch back to zero for those times when you find velocity triggering unwanted aftertouch. Hope it helps.

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/1854/putility

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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by re:dream » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:34 pm

Martyn wrote:I made a little max for live utility to deal with this sort of thing, you just have to stick it before an instrument and both knobs turn up as mappable in push. One is permanently mapped to modwheel, the other scales aftertouch back to zero for those times when you find velocity triggering unwanted aftertouch. Hope it helps.

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/1854/putility
Now if that device was mapped to Pitch Bend and not Mod Wheel, it would do the trick

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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by Martyn » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:09 pm

Hmm, sounds like it might be worth trying to make some kind of midi translator, maybe somebody already did.

As far as Tension goes, I've had good results by mapping the vibrato Rate and Amount controls to one knob, then cotrolling that with the modwheel, it'd be easy to map that to aftertouch if that's what you're aiming for.

So far, the only way I've found to get the pitchbend strip on Push to control another parameter (without it springing to centre) is by using PXT-Live, which is well worth the small price for all the expanded functionality it gives to Push

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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by Martyn » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:28 pm

The Finn wrote:
http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/1854/putility

Now if that device was mapped to Pitch Bend and not Mod Wheel, it would do the trick
It's pretty easy to map a knob to pitchbend but it's not very playable, you really do need it to spring back to pitch.

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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by re:dream » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:44 am

Martyn wrote:

It's pretty easy to map a knob to pitchbend
ok great. how?

I have been looking on the interweb, but what I find is statements like this
Ableton Live does not allow you to map incoming MIDI signals to pitchbend information in MIDI tracks. It would be useful, but it is not supported.
http://avp.stackexchange.com/questions/ ... in-ableton

So if this is incorrect, please advise.

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Re: Bending Tension pitch with aftertouch

Post by Martyn » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:47 am

The Finn wrote:
Martyn wrote:

It's pretty easy to map a knob to pitchbend
ok great. how?

I have been looking on the interweb, but what I find is statements like this
Ableton Live does not allow you to map incoming MIDI signals to pitchbend information in MIDI tracks. It would be useful, but it is not supported.
http://avp.stackexchange.com/questions/ ... in-ableton

So if this is incorrect, please advise.
I think they're talking about intercepting the midi before it gets to the input of the DAW there, that's what Bomes does, and that's what they're trying to re-create, sort of.

What I meant by easy to 'map pitch bend with a knob' is just do what I did with the modwheel controller, the trouble is, as I said, it's pretty useless as you end up with the synth's tuning all over the place as there's no central return system.

If you wanted to just try that, all you have to do is open that max patch, disconnect the aftertouch knob and just connect it to the pitchbend inlet on the 'midiformat' object (inlet second from right). Then save the patch as something appropriate. You'll see the problem instantly, I suppose it might be useful for bending a synth's pitch around wildly, or getting an lfo onto pitch, there are better ways to do that though, Tension's lfos are plenty good enough to get vibrato.

There's a pretty interesting thread on generating pitchbend here> http://cycling74.com/forums/topic/gener ... itch-bend/ You can definitely play with pitchbend in Max, if you want to.

I must admit, I'm not actually sure I fully understand what it is you're trying to achieve now though, your original post said that you wanted to "map aftertouch to get tremelo effects in Tension" (which I take to mean 'Vibrato' as you want to mess with pitch, Tremelo being a variation in volume) This is easy to do with Tension as it is, just map the aftertouch in expression control to 'Vibrato amount' on Tension. I usually rack Tension then map both "Vibrato Amount" and "Rate" to one knob, then map my controller to that, as it sounds a little more lifelike. If you just want to manually create Vibrato with your fingers, you already have the perfect controller to do that with in Push's ribbon.

I'd definitely dig a bit deeper into programming Tension to provide the modulation you want, it's a frustrating synth to program but capable of some stunning (if a bit weird) sounds with a little patience.

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