BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Tone Deft
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Re: BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:13 pm

cheers! thanks for clarifying. I'm at work and wasn't sure if I missed something from being distracted.
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Dragonbreath
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Re: BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Post by Dragonbreath » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:49 pm

Recording in 24 bit is very usefull when recording things with a high dynamic range as increasing the gain on the recording after will have LESS of a dramatic impact on the sound then 16 bit would. This is why they would record with a compressor before tape.

"24 bit resolution versus 16 bit resolution is a genuine advantage. 24 bit recording allows the sound engineer to use far more of the working range of a system than 16 bit systems ever could"

"In high-quality 24 bit conversion systems getting analog signals as close to 0 dBFS is far less critical from a noise perspective than with 16 bit. While best practice dictates using all of a systems dynamic range, when levels are set incorrectly the 24 bit system is far more accommodating than 16 bit."

http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recor ... d-24-bits/

eyeknow
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Re: BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Post by eyeknow » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:06 am

I still think that all the technique in the world cannot replace something like the MBSII I mentioned. It's instant gratification and with "mixing" skills can sound incredibly convincing.

Pasha
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Re: BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Post by Pasha » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:09 am

3dot... wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:'boost the gain' isn't even using the basic vocabulary correctly.

this is basic stuff. you record as loud as you can to keep the signal to noise ratio high. the noise is constant, the only variable is the signal. that's the analog side, it has NOTHING to do with bit depth. any operation afterwards will affect both noise and signal. boost the signal and the noise goes up by the same amount.

headroom is useful for mixing signals together, EQing and whatnot without having to play with the levels to avoid clipping.

hopefully we're saying the same thing and it's just a language thing, it really doesn't matter to me.
in any case.. 16bit or 24 bit.. peaks at -6dB
should give a big enough SNR there's no need to aim to get near unity level
(and accidentally clip the inputs)
provided your recording chain isn't hella noisy in the 1st place.. and you're not pushing the gain on 3 different preamps
remember that a lot of the information gets filtered out at the A/D conversion stage...
the noise floor is lower than the olden days also due to less transistors and high powered gear..
and besides.. the recorded file will be lowered in the mix in any case..

TD.. I love your approach..
your approach is more old school analog desk to tape style...
you should try to record as high as you can..
use the most pristine signal chain as you can..
even 'warm' the signal up by clipping or saturating the tape...
those were the days...

DB...
24 bit means a finer resolution to represent volume...
it's not "really" a bigger range..
just more steps to the same length of ladder...
I also 'old school', like TD, there were the days... as you said! :-)
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boderekstits
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Re: BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Post by boderekstits » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:17 am

fender american jazz > sansamp bass driver > mackie 1402VLZ > m-audio firewire 410.

mono track in ableton

then add EQ and Compressor (PSP vintage warmer usually), lately i've been adding a saturator as well and I'm finally happy with how the live bass sounds.

when I record the bass into Maschine lately it's been sounding better...

love me some delayed bass slaps via Waves h-delay...

JoshG567
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Re: BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Post by JoshG567 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:53 am

If I had a nice room I'd put mics on my 8x10, but there's wood floors and resonances in the floor and ceiling. If I had wiring that was up to code I'd also go direct from my bass preamp to my digital interface, but I get a ground loop hum. Maybe I'm worrying about those things too much?

Anyhow I plug in dry, max the SNR, and set my interface to zero-latency tracking with monitoring in Live off because latency fucks me up. I like to hear the dry sound from the pickup while I track to get an intimate feel for how I'm playing. Once I've tracked the clip and it starts to play back in session I get the instant gratification of hearing it through my signal chain (racks within racks within racks). I've fucked with GuitarRig and Amp and honestly I've become more impressed with the growing selection of freeware models available. Being able to use impulse responses for different speaker cabs is nice.

I love tracking bass because there's usually only 1 string going and you don't have to double takes. Easy to do it first and quickly before adding guitars as it really helps nail the latter down. I'm not the only one here making metal with Live, am I? (crickets)

crumhorn
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Re: BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Post by crumhorn » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:26 am

Record direct to the guitar input on your soundcard to get the cleanest, unprocessed signal you can.

Reducing the input gain to avoid clipping will worsen the signal to noise ratio slightly but if your sound card is any good it will still be basically inaudible in the mix, whereas digital clipping sounds bloody awful and might ruin an otherwise perfect performance.

But my main point is - save compression, filtering, etc for the mix down stage where you can hear how it sits in the mix compared to the rest of the track.

On the other hand, and to totally contradict myself, if you want a proper live rock band style bass sound you can't beat sticking a microphone - or several - in front of a proper bass amp and cab.
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joeyfivecents
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Re: BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Post by joeyfivecents » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:40 pm

I usually go through an ART Pro Channel, which is a preamp/compressor/eq. Then into Saffire Pro 40. If I don't feel like messing with the outboard then straight into the interface. Line 6 bass amp or Amplitube plugin after that. Sometimes Amp and Cabinet in Live plugins.
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clydesdale
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Re: BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Post by clydesdale » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:30 pm

crumhorn wrote:Record direct to the guitar input on your soundcard to get the cleanest, unprocessed signal you can.

Reducing the input gain to avoid clipping will worsen the signal to noise ratio slightly but if your sound card is any good it will still be basically inaudible in the mix, whereas digital clipping sounds bloody awful and might ruin an otherwise perfect performance.

But my main point is - save compression, filtering, etc for the mix down stage where you can hear how it sits in the mix compared to the rest of the track.

On the other hand, and to totally contradict myself, if you want a proper live rock band style bass sound you can't beat sticking a microphone - or several - in front of a proper bass amp and cab.
It's also pretty common to do both of those techniques, one channel for cabinet mic and another DI with a blend of the two channels at mixdown. It's the maximum flexibility option.
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Manix
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Re: BASS GUITAR recording techniques-how are you doing it?

Post by Manix » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:47 am

If you want to make it High Tec.
1. Record dierect in and Miced Amp at the same Time
2. Delay the Dierect In Signal till it sounds Strong 1-2 ms
3. Group Both Channels and Mix, Compress, Flange and Chorous it to Gusto

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