Song-building frustrations >:/

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
TheNobleNemesis
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:58 am
Location: Earth, Virgo Supercluster

Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by TheNobleNemesis » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:14 am

Hello, Ableton. Recently i've been frustrated over my songwriting techniques. I'm not certain whether to start with an intricate series of drum patterns and slowly fill in a melody, or to build up a melody, then add a beat to it.

The problem with the first method is that my drums will sound excellent but my melody will sound contrived and very devoid of emotion.

With the second, I have a decent melody going, but almost instinctively, like a child in a candy shop, i'll quickly, impulsively resort to a kick-hat-snare-hat pattern and occasionally throw in some claps. It's absolutely pathetic.

If I start with a pad-layer first, I end up deleting the pad-layer and starting anew.

I cannot tell you how many times I have deleted a project because it's elements didn't match.

Solutions, anyone?

rap masta rj
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:59 am

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by rap masta rj » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:22 am

sometimes i try to build the rest of the part from a melody if i dont have any ideas otherwise. like i would look at the melody in the piano roll, see where it hits the roots in the line and maybe use those roots for the bassline, then base the drum pattern off of the same concept. ive also been experimenting alot with resampling and how you can use it creatively, it really helps me get songs moving.

miekwave
Posts: 755
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:49 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by miekwave » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:20 am

TheNobleNemesis wrote:Hello, Ableton. Recently i've been frustrated over my songwriting techniques. I'm not certain whether to start with an intricate series of drum patterns and slowly fill in a melody, or to build up a melody, then add a beat to it.

The problem with the first method is that my drums will sound excellent but my melody will sound contrived and very devoid of emotion.

With the second, I have a decent melody going, but almost instinctively, like a child in a candy shop, i'll quickly, impulsively resort to a kick-hat-snare-hat pattern and occasionally throw in some claps. It's absolutely pathetic.

If I start with a pad-layer first, I end up deleting the pad-layer and starting anew.

I cannot tell you how many times I have deleted a project because it's elements didn't match.

Solutions, anyone?
THE SINGLE BEST TIP
1. PLAN YOUR SONG before attempting to make it


THE PRE STUDIO
1. Clean your mind before working on a track
2. Take a 10 minute nap
3. Be WELL FED and NOURISHED
4. Don't forget to pee
^^^ Your creative workflow is stronger when you are well fed and rested and you dont need to go to the bathroom

THE STUDIO SETUP
1. Make sure you have adequate monitors and/or headphone and studio connections
3. DO NOT LOOK AT EMAIL, FACEBOOK, PORN, CELL PHONE, PLAY VIDEO GAMES, OR WATCH CAT VIDEOS
4. DO NOT LOOK AT EMAIL, FACEBOOK, PORN, CELL PHONE, PLAY VIDEO GAMES, OR WATCH CAT VIDEOS
5. DO NOT LOOK AT EMAIL, FACEBOOK, PORN, CELL PHONE, PLAY VIDEO GAMES, OR WATCH CAT VIDEOS
6. Did I forget to mention do not look at EMAIL FACEBOOK PORN or your CELL PHONE...?
^^^ These detractors that will totally screw up your creative workflow, you will be 200% more efficient without these distractions
7. It's okay to look at Ableton Forum :)

The ARRANGEMENT
1. Decide on the THEME you are attempting to create, this can be a PLACE, an EVENT, a TOPIC etc... your THEME will drive how you produce your track
2. Before working on your song cut your ARRANGEMENT VIEW into 8 bar increment markers
3. Name each marker, intro, chorus, bridge, verse, outro, etc.,
4. My sections usually last 8,16 or 24 bars each, but for the most part they are broken down into 4 or 8 bar sections

the PREMIX ARRANGEMENT
1. Before mixing instruments, decide what your overall TONE is going to be
2. Decide which AUX effects are appropriate for your kind of music
3. Insert a Reverb aux track for global reverb send
4. Insert a Delay aux track for global delay send
5. Insert a Harmonic exciter type effect aux track (harmonic exciters on Ableton include AMP and other distortion based effects) for Harmonic generator send. Send your LEAD and/or BASSLINE here on different parts of your ARRANGEMENT, for example on VERSES, LEAD is sent 20% to the Harmonic exciter
6. Insert a CHORUS effect aux track - Ex. On CHORUSES send your LEAD 50% on CHORUS effect and 0% everywhere else

The SOUNDS
1. Before working on your song, decide before hand which INSTRUMENTS are going to be on your track
2. Choose a LEAD instrument to play your primary LEAD
3. Choose a BASS instrument to play your primary BASSLINE
4. Choose a POLYPHONIC instrument to play your primary HARMONIES
5. Choose a DRUM-MACHINE instrument to play your primary DRUMS
6. Choose Foley or SFX sounds for non musical based sound effects
7. Do not add secondary instruments until you have your main song arrangement

The Workflow
1. Before working on your song- STOP screwing around with sounds for a moment.
2. THINK about the melody component, THINK about the bass component and THINK about the RHYTHMIX component for the MAIN theme of your song (usually 4 or 8 bars)
3. Make your 8 Bar MELODY with your LEAD instrument,
3a. try recording on controller first without QUANTIZING, keep on recording until you have the best human played part - usualy MELODY lines are especially more natural when UNQUANTISED
4. Make your 8 Bar BASSLINE
5. Make your 8 Bar DRUM LOOP
5a. Be sure to use "VELOCITY" and TIMING dynamics to humanize to taste for each drum instrument

The KEY
1. When composing your own tracks, if you are struggling, stick to ONE or TWO key signatures. This should keep your own loops and clips consistent with each other musically accrposs different tracks you make
2. This will make it easier to compose each track

THE INSTRUMENT INSERTS
1. Sometimes minimum is key here, use mimimum compression, and minimum delay effects as possible to keep a wide dynamic range
1a. PUMP to taste, but don't over do it
2.


The MIX
1. Before MIXing decide the kind of TONE you are attempting to recreate, examples include, 80s TAPE, 90s ADAT style, MODERN DIGITAL STYLE,etc.
2. If you have a Casette recorder, send s bus track from your analog mixer to your tape and record instrument parts
2a. send your cassete mix back into your session and allign and mix to taste (I like 75/25% to 50/50) - This will add air to your tracks (Or bus or mix for that matter)
3. If you have TUBE PRE's - send and render your main BASS, MELODY, and RYTHEM track or bus through it to help it shine in the mix
4. MIX

FINAL MIXING
1. Add secondary instrument parts to taste to complement your main parts
2. Mix to taste

The MASTER
1. Decide the kind of ENVIRONMENT you want the listener to experience when he listens to your song with headphone. Is it in a basement, is it in the woods, is it at your favorite venue?
2. Apply pre MASTER effects that emulates the environment you want to reproduce, I use MASTER reverb at about 5-10% to achieve this usually.
3. I usually EQ8 HPF 12dbo 60hz and a SHARP LPF rolloff at 20k or 14k for a more lofid sound

Also, try the following tips
The PIANO
1. Close your current session
2. Start a new clean session
3. Play only a PIANO patch for about 10-15 minutes
3a. (Optional) Watch some youtube vids on playing Piano
4. Record a few loops or midi clips (8 should suffice) you did with your piano and save them in a custom folder
5. Open your session again
6. If this worked, then congratulations you just got out of creators block
7. Remember those clips/loops you recorded on piano? Drag them in and try them on a BASELINE, MELODY, and/or HARMONY parts use an alt version for Intro, chorus, verse, bridge, outro, etc.


The NOTEBOOK
1. Get away form your studio
2. Make up a song in your head
3. Write your song ideas on paper (arrangement, melodies, baselines, harmonies, beats, chorus, verse, bridge, etc.)
4. Come back to your studio and make what you thought of and wrote down

The Music Video
1. Take an hour break and watch a music program
2. Refresh your music know how or learn something new I recommend the following.
Maybe give each episode multiple viewing to let it sink in. It ties into your ability to write songs.
These programs cover what took me 4 years to learn in college, I still enjoy watching them.

How music works: Melody
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFC019DB4E1400743

How music works: Rhythm
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD22A163254D058A0

How music works: Harmony
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB65B121D5BDB43BE

How music works: Bass
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL64F4C249A2A64340


PRACTICE
1. Practice playing PIANO
2. Practive playing GUITAR
3. Practice SINGING
4. Practice playing DRUMS
^^^ Playing different instruments will give you a faster creative work flow and inspire many many ideas

33tetragammon
Posts: 903
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:34 pm
Location: The Universe
Contact:

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by 33tetragammon » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:52 am

To the OP:

Relax, it happens to everyone. Don't worry too much about it,

JUST DO WHAT FEELS RIGHT!

Besides, creativity is something that you can't EVER plan, it just happens or doesn't. When it's not there, don't enforce it by keep trying to squeeze it out. You'll might end up getting frustrated more and more. Let go and do something else, or don't do anything at all.....
And these 'magic lists' with steps that i see more and more everywhere to 'help improve creativity' only help you to get in your head more, making you more MENTAL and ANALYTICAL. Not to say that being mental is bad or evil, it just needs to be in balance with FEELINGS and EMOTIONS.

In my opinion of course.....

rozling
Posts: 1760
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 9:48 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by rozling » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:25 am

miekwave wrote:
TheNobleNemesis wrote:Hello, Ableton. Recently i've been frustrated over my songwriting techniques. I'm not certain whether to start with an intricate series of drum patterns and slowly fill in a melody, or to build up a melody, then add a beat to it.

The problem with the first method is that my drums will sound excellent but my melody will sound contrived and very devoid of emotion.

With the second, I have a decent melody going, but almost instinctively, like a child in a candy shop, i'll quickly, impulsively resort to a kick-hat-snare-hat pattern and occasionally throw in some claps. It's absolutely pathetic.

If I start with a pad-layer first, I end up deleting the pad-layer and starting anew.

I cannot tell you how many times I have deleted a project because it's elements didn't match.

Solutions, anyone?
THE SINGLE BEST TIP
1. PLAN YOUR SONG before attempting to make it


THE PRE STUDIO
1. Clean your mind before working on a track
2. Take a 10 minute nap
3. Be WELL FED and NOURISHED
4. Don't forget to pee
^^^ Your creative workflow is stronger when you are well fed and rested and you dont need to go to the bathroom

THE STUDIO SETUP
1. Make sure you have adequate monitors and/or headphone and studio connections
3. DO NOT LOOK AT EMAIL, FACEBOOK, PORN, CELL PHONE, PLAY VIDEO GAMES, OR WATCH CAT VIDEOS
4. DO NOT LOOK AT EMAIL, FACEBOOK, PORN, CELL PHONE, PLAY VIDEO GAMES, OR WATCH CAT VIDEOS
5. DO NOT LOOK AT EMAIL, FACEBOOK, PORN, CELL PHONE, PLAY VIDEO GAMES, OR WATCH CAT VIDEOS
6. Did I forget to mention do not look at EMAIL FACEBOOK PORN or your CELL PHONE...?
^^^ These detractors that will totally screw up your creative workflow, you will be 200% more efficient without these distractions
7. It's okay to look at Ableton Forum :)

The ARRANGEMENT
1. Decide on the THEME you are attempting to create, this can be a PLACE, an EVENT, a TOPIC etc... your THEME will drive how you produce your track
2. Before working on your song cut your ARRANGEMENT VIEW into 8 bar increment markers
3. Name each marker, intro, chorus, bridge, verse, outro, etc.,
4. My sections usually last 8,16 or 24 bars each, but for the most part they are broken down into 4 or 8 bar sections

the PREMIX ARRANGEMENT
1. Before mixing instruments, decide what your overall TONE is going to be
2. Decide which AUX effects are appropriate for your kind of music
3. Insert a Reverb aux track for global reverb send
4. Insert a Delay aux track for global delay send
5. Insert a Harmonic exciter type effect aux track (harmonic exciters on Ableton include AMP and other distortion based effects) for Harmonic generator send. Send your LEAD and/or BASSLINE here on different parts of your ARRANGEMENT, for example on VERSES, LEAD is sent 20% to the Harmonic exciter
6. Insert a CHORUS effect aux track - Ex. On CHORUSES send your LEAD 50% on CHORUS effect and 0% everywhere else

The SOUNDS
1. Before working on your song, decide before hand which INSTRUMENTS are going to be on your track
2. Choose a LEAD instrument to play your primary LEAD
3. Choose a BASS instrument to play your primary BASSLINE
4. Choose a POLYPHONIC instrument to play your primary HARMONIES
5. Choose a DRUM-MACHINE instrument to play your primary DRUMS
6. Choose Foley or SFX sounds for non musical based sound effects
7. Do not add secondary instruments until you have your main song arrangement

The Workflow
1. Before working on your song- STOP screwing around with sounds for a moment.
2. THINK about the melody component, THINK about the bass component and THINK about the RHYTHMIX component for the MAIN theme of your song (usually 4 or 8 bars)
3. Make your 8 Bar MELODY with your LEAD instrument,
3a. try recording on controller first without QUANTIZING, keep on recording until you have the best human played part - usualy MELODY lines are especially more natural when UNQUANTISED
4. Make your 8 Bar BASSLINE
5. Make your 8 Bar DRUM LOOP
5a. Be sure to use "VELOCITY" and TIMING dynamics to humanize to taste for each drum instrument

The KEY
1. When composing your own tracks, if you are struggling, stick to ONE or TWO key signatures. This should keep your own loops and clips consistent with each other musically accrposs different tracks you make
2. This will make it easier to compose each track

THE INSTRUMENT INSERTS
1. Sometimes minimum is key here, use mimimum compression, and minimum delay effects as possible to keep a wide dynamic range
1a. PUMP to taste, but don't over do it
2.


The MIX
1. Before MIXing decide the kind of TONE you are attempting to recreate, examples include, 80s TAPE, 90s ADAT style, MODERN DIGITAL STYLE,etc.
2. If you have a Casette recorder, send s bus track from your analog mixer to your tape and record instrument parts
2a. send your cassete mix back into your session and allign and mix to taste (I like 75/25% to 50/50) - This will add air to your tracks (Or bus or mix for that matter)
3. If you have TUBE PRE's - send and render your main BASS, MELODY, and RYTHEM track or bus through it to help it shine in the mix
4. MIX

FINAL MIXING
1. Add secondary instrument parts to taste to complement your main parts
2. Mix to taste

The MASTER
1. Decide the kind of ENVIRONMENT you want the listener to experience when he listens to your song with headphone. Is it in a basement, is it in the woods, is it at your favorite venue?
2. Apply pre MASTER effects that emulates the environment you want to reproduce, I use MASTER reverb at about 5-10% to achieve this usually.
3. I usually EQ8 HPF 12dbo 60hz and a SHARP LPF rolloff at 20k or 14k for a more lofid sound

Also, try the following tips
The PIANO
1. Close your current session
2. Start a new clean session
3. Play only a PIANO patch for about 10-15 minutes
3a. (Optional) Watch some youtube vids on playing Piano
4. Record a few loops or midi clips (8 should suffice) you did with your piano and save them in a custom folder
5. Open your session again
6. If this worked, then congratulations you just got out of creators block
7. Remember those clips/loops you recorded on piano? Drag them in and try them on a BASELINE, MELODY, and/or HARMONY parts use an alt version for Intro, chorus, verse, bridge, outro, etc.


The NOTEBOOK
1. Get away form your studio
2. Make up a song in your head
3. Write your song ideas on paper (arrangement, melodies, baselines, harmonies, beats, chorus, verse, bridge, etc.)
4. Come back to your studio and make what you thought of and wrote down

The Music Video
1. Take an hour break and watch a music program
2. Refresh your music know how or learn something new I recommend the following.
Maybe give each episode multiple viewing to let it sink in. It ties into your ability to write songs.
These programs cover what took me 4 years to learn in college, I still enjoy watching them.

How music works: Melody
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFC019DB4E1400743

How music works: Rhythm
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD22A163254D058A0

How music works: Harmony
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB65B121D5BDB43BE

How music works: Bass
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL64F4C249A2A64340


PRACTICE
1. Practice playing PIANO
2. Practive playing GUITAR
3. Practice SINGING
4. Practice playing DRUMS
^^^ Playing different instruments will give you a faster creative work flow and inspire many many ideas
This is one of the best things I have ever read on this forum. Bravo :D

ian_halsall
Posts: 1715
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 8:52 am
Location: South London
Contact:

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by ian_halsall » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:38 am

Here's the solution:

Hard work

rozling
Posts: 1760
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 9:48 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by rozling » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:02 am

Gosh you're so edgy and brutal in your opinions, you impenetrable mystery you!

Image

mareproduction
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by mareproduction » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:53 pm

miekwave wrote:
TheNobleNemesis wrote:Hello, Ableton. Recently i've been frustrated over my songwriting techniques. I'm not certain whether to start with an intricate series of drum patterns and slowly fill in a melody, or to build up a melody, then add a beat to it.

The problem with the first method is that my drums will sound excellent but my melody will sound contrived and very devoid of emotion.

With the second, I have a decent melody going, but almost instinctively, like a child in a candy shop, i'll quickly, impulsively resort to a kick-hat-snare-hat pattern and occasionally throw in some claps. It's absolutely pathetic.

If I start with a pad-layer first, I end up deleting the pad-layer and starting anew.

I cannot tell you how many times I have deleted a project because it's elements didn't match.

Solutions, anyone?
THE SINGLE BEST TIP
1. PLAN YOUR SONG before attempting to make it


THE PRE STUDIO
1. Clean your mind before working on a track
2. Take a 10 minute nap
3. Be WELL FED and NOURISHED
4. Don't forget to pee
^^^ Your creative workflow is stronger when you are well fed and rested and you dont need to go to the bathroom

THE STUDIO SETUP
1. Make sure you have adequate monitors and/or headphone and studio connections
3. DO NOT LOOK AT EMAIL, FACEBOOK, PORN, CELL PHONE, PLAY VIDEO GAMES, OR WATCH CAT VIDEOS
4. DO NOT LOOK AT EMAIL, FACEBOOK, PORN, CELL PHONE, PLAY VIDEO GAMES, OR WATCH CAT VIDEOS
5. DO NOT LOOK AT EMAIL, FACEBOOK, PORN, CELL PHONE, PLAY VIDEO GAMES, OR WATCH CAT VIDEOS
6. Did I forget to mention do not look at EMAIL FACEBOOK PORN or your CELL PHONE...?
^^^ These detractors that will totally screw up your creative workflow, you will be 200% more efficient without these distractions
7. It's okay to look at Ableton Forum :)

The ARRANGEMENT
1. Decide on the THEME you are attempting to create, this can be a PLACE, an EVENT, a TOPIC etc... your THEME will drive how you produce your track
2. Before working on your song cut your ARRANGEMENT VIEW into 8 bar increment markers
3. Name each marker, intro, chorus, bridge, verse, outro, etc.,
4. My sections usually last 8,16 or 24 bars each, but for the most part they are broken down into 4 or 8 bar sections

the PREMIX ARRANGEMENT
1. Before mixing instruments, decide what your overall TONE is going to be
2. Decide which AUX effects are appropriate for your kind of music
3. Insert a Reverb aux track for global reverb send
4. Insert a Delay aux track for global delay send
5. Insert a Harmonic exciter type effect aux track (harmonic exciters on Ableton include AMP and other distortion based effects) for Harmonic generator send. Send your LEAD and/or BASSLINE here on different parts of your ARRANGEMENT, for example on VERSES, LEAD is sent 20% to the Harmonic exciter
6. Insert a CHORUS effect aux track - Ex. On CHORUSES send your LEAD 50% on CHORUS effect and 0% everywhere else

The SOUNDS
1. Before working on your song, decide before hand which INSTRUMENTS are going to be on your track
2. Choose a LEAD instrument to play your primary LEAD
3. Choose a BASS instrument to play your primary BASSLINE
4. Choose a POLYPHONIC instrument to play your primary HARMONIES
5. Choose a DRUM-MACHINE instrument to play your primary DRUMS
6. Choose Foley or SFX sounds for non musical based sound effects
7. Do not add secondary instruments until you have your main song arrangement

The Workflow
1. Before working on your song- STOP screwing around with sounds for a moment.
2. THINK about the melody component, THINK about the bass component and THINK about the RHYTHMIX component for the MAIN theme of your song (usually 4 or 8 bars)
3. Make your 8 Bar MELODY with your LEAD instrument,
3a. try recording on controller first without QUANTIZING, keep on recording until you have the best human played part - usualy MELODY lines are especially more natural when UNQUANTISED
4. Make your 8 Bar BASSLINE
5. Make your 8 Bar DRUM LOOP
5a. Be sure to use "VELOCITY" and TIMING dynamics to humanize to taste for each drum instrument

The KEY
1. When composing your own tracks, if you are struggling, stick to ONE or TWO key signatures. This should keep your own loops and clips consistent with each other musically accrposs different tracks you make
2. This will make it easier to compose each track

THE INSTRUMENT INSERTS
1. Sometimes minimum is key here, use mimimum compression, and minimum delay effects as possible to keep a wide dynamic range
1a. PUMP to taste, but don't over do it
2.


The MIX
1. Before MIXing decide the kind of TONE you are attempting to recreate, examples include, 80s TAPE, 90s ADAT style, MODERN DIGITAL STYLE,etc.
2. If you have a Casette recorder, send s bus track from your analog mixer to your tape and record instrument parts
2a. send your cassete mix back into your session and allign and mix to taste (I like 75/25% to 50/50) - This will add air to your tracks (Or bus or mix for that matter)
3. If you have TUBE PRE's - send and render your main BASS, MELODY, and RYTHEM track or bus through it to help it shine in the mix
4. MIX

FINAL MIXING
1. Add secondary instrument parts to taste to complement your main parts
2. Mix to taste

The MASTER
1. Decide the kind of ENVIRONMENT you want the listener to experience when he listens to your song with headphone. Is it in a basement, is it in the woods, is it at your favorite venue?
2. Apply pre MASTER effects that emulates the environment you want to reproduce, I use MASTER reverb at about 5-10% to achieve this usually.
3. I usually EQ8 HPF 12dbo 60hz and a SHARP LPF rolloff at 20k or 14k for a more lofid sound

Also, try the following tips
The PIANO
1. Close your current session
2. Start a new clean session
3. Play only a PIANO patch for about 10-15 minutes
3a. (Optional) Watch some youtube vids on playing Piano
4. Record a few loops or midi clips (8 should suffice) you did with your piano and save them in a custom folder
5. Open your session again
6. If this worked, then congratulations you just got out of creators block
7. Remember those clips/loops you recorded on piano? Drag them in and try them on a BASELINE, MELODY, and/or HARMONY parts use an alt version for Intro, chorus, verse, bridge, outro, etc.


The NOTEBOOK
1. Get away form your studio
2. Make up a song in your head
3. Write your song ideas on paper (arrangement, melodies, baselines, harmonies, beats, chorus, verse, bridge, etc.)
4. Come back to your studio and make what you thought of and wrote down

The Music Video
1. Take an hour break and watch a music program
2. Refresh your music know how or learn something new I recommend the following.
Maybe give each episode multiple viewing to let it sink in. It ties into your ability to write songs.
These programs cover what took me 4 years to learn in college, I still enjoy watching them.

How music works: Melody
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFC019DB4E1400743

How music works: Rhythm
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD22A163254D058A0

How music works: Harmony
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB65B121D5BDB43BE

How music works: Bass
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL64F4C249A2A64340


PRACTICE
1. Practice playing PIANO
2. Practive playing GUITAR
3. Practice SINGING
4. Practice playing DRUMS
^^^ Playing different instruments will give you a faster creative work flow and inspire many many ideas
Thanks for this nice tips :P

Tarekith
Posts: 19072
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Contact:

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by Tarekith » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:17 pm

The "How Music Works" series is wonderful, saw those a few years ago and really enjoyed them. He (Howard Goodall) has a couple newer series on the history of music that are just as fascinating.
Tarekith
Ableton Forum Administrator
https://tarekith.com

H20nly
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by H20nly » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:21 pm

i read somewhere once that you should not look at email, facebook, porn, cell phone, play video games, or watch cat videos.

i'll see if i can find a link to that...


Edit: here it is viewtopic.php?f=1&t=197688&p=1554826#p1554826
Last edited by H20nly on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

beatz01
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:09 pm

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by beatz01 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:37 pm

Learn some music theory.Simple.

Mister Natural
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: michigan

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by Mister Natural » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:51 am

intro - 2 to 8 bars
A section(verse) - 8 to 32 bars - followed by
B section(chorus) - simple variation of "A" - 8 or 16 bars
repeat A & B - this time with added or fewer instruments - maybe a completely different accompianment of just piano/drums/bass
C section - sometimes called the bridge - you might use use elements of intro - sometimes no drums or just a heatbeat for drama
A section followed by B again - this could be an guitar or sax solo over the A & B
Final A & B with the full string section/80 voice choir/brass/screaming guitars/etc - any vocals here to include lots of emotional outbursts
out-ro - 2 to 8 bars with fade . . . or not

peace
an expert only on what it feels like to be me
& you are who you google
#smile

Andrew Hill
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:01 pm

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by Andrew Hill » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:57 pm

rap masta rj wrote: ive also been experimenting alot with resampling and how you can use it creatively, it really helps me get songs moving.
Me too rap masta ;-)

A common starting point for me at the moment:

- create a midi clip with one note, C3
- put midi effects on the track, try starting with Chord (to increase the midi notes from just the one C3) then Arpeggiator. After this I may insert the M4L Midi Note Echo and maybe Scale. Depending on what sound I end up using I often use the 'Add some random' Velocity preset too to add more variation and ensure all notes aren't hitting at the same velocity
- put an instrument or synth (or even drums & percussion) after the midi effects and hit play
- mess around with the midi effects, the sound you have and maybe some effects after the sound until you start to hear something you like with randomness and complexity to your own taste
- resample
- play around with the clip you have created, reversing, re-pitching, effects after it, maybe just looping sections you particularly like, etc etc

The caveat to all this is I'm not really 'writing songs', I'm trying to create interesting sounds and atmospherics etc. I like the feel of the music to dictate where to go next. The thing I love about this technique is that it is perfect for when you feel uninspired and you can do it lying in bed with a laptop. When you move to your 'studio' you will have some loops (and they can get quite long once you start re-pitching!) with fairly complex and completely unique sound material that you created yourself (from one midi note) as starting points for longer pieces.


https://soundcloud.com/andrew-hill
Last edited by Andrew Hill on Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timday
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:02 pm

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by timday » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:03 pm

Well, you like the melodies from your melodic based sessions and the drums from your drum based ones, so I'd say take the melody from one session and the drums from another. Some of them are bound to go together. Some of my stuff that I like best started life as two or three different tracks.

Angstrom
Posts: 14921
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Song-building frustrations >:/

Post by Angstrom » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:51 pm

timday wrote:Well, you like the melodies from your melodic based sessions and the drums from your drum based ones, so I'd say take the melody from one session and the drums from another. Some of them are bound to go together. Some of my stuff that I like best started life as two or three different tracks.
Yep, do this.

Although you might be inclined say "ah, but it doesn't quite fit" due to a latent preconception of what you thought you wanted in there - In fact most songs benefit from a little internal tension. Sometimes if it all fits together too nicely it makes the song obvious, and un-interesting. So put those dub-samba drums into your minimal tech-house bleep piece. Put the relaxing ambient melody over the fractured breakbeat. Everybody wins.

Note: I tend to render stems for this, and aproach it like a remix. Its easier to manage that way.

Post Reply