After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
beatz01
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by beatz01 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:08 pm

beats me wrote:
sowhoso wrote:i rarely have more than 3-4 plugins per track (20-30 tracks, mostly Waves, Slate and IK plugins).
60 to 120 plug-in instances per song. 8O

And to think I used to record just fine on a 4-track cassette deck. :x
This.

I'm always shocked at how many plugin instances or track amounts people seem to consider to be "normal".I really think if for a single (pop) song you have like 50+ tracks or 3+ plugins on *every* track average, there's something wrong.Either too much adding sounds (which usually is a sign for your song not working at the core basic level) or you should have bounced group tracks to audio and flatten a few other tracks -> translates to making a decision.

I just still don't take 100 tracks for one song as granted and don't think it's neccessary.

tedlogan
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by tedlogan » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:44 pm

I'm gonna have to agree with that. I always used to have an OK/shit core of a song, and just kept adding track (though never up to 50, 25 max)upon track, plugin after plugin, not realizing that I was polishing turds for so long. Castles built on sand.

Nowadays I only use a maximum of three tracks AT FIRST, usually drums or some sort of percussion, a guitar arrangement/and or synth arrangement/groove/loop. Once I get something that I think sounds right, and I mean I must be able to listen to this part on crap speakers, like a laptop's, and enjoy it, then I add vocals and fills, and flesh out certain parts.

I'd say my average track count would be around 6 - 16, depending on how much I want to layer guitars if they feature prominently - which I only really do if I want to thicken a part by recording the same riff four times, and then group it. Sometimes I'd have even fewer tracks. I love layered music, but I think these layers should be very well considered and chosen, only letting the strong tracks survive, killing off the weak/unsupportive ones.

Now that I've gone off on a tangent for a bit, I can see why sometimes many more tracks could be needed though, and I'm not criticizing anyone who does so at all. Just relating my experiences.

Tarekith
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by Tarekith » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Count me in the group that doesn't get the dozens and dozens of tracks things either, using MAYBE 16-20 here for most songs. Probably 5-10 plug ins, if that. Oh well, horses for courses.

H20nly
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by H20nly » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:08 pm

Tarekith wrote:Count me in the group that doesn't get the dozens and dozens of tracks things either, using MAYBE 16-20 here for most songs. Probably 5-10 plug ins, if that. Oh well, horses for courses.
this is my take on it too.


i do get it that sound scores take more tracks but Ableton Live seems like the wrong tool for that...

sowhoso
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by sowhoso » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:46 pm

beatz01 wrote:
beats me wrote:
sowhoso wrote:i rarely have more than 3-4 plugins per track (20-30 tracks, mostly Waves, Slate and IK plugins).
60 to 120 plug-in instances per song. 8O

And to think I used to record just fine on a 4-track cassette deck. :x
This.

I'm always shocked at how many plugin instances or track amounts people seem to consider to be "normal".I really think if for a single (pop) song you have like 50+ tracks or 3+ plugins on *every* track average, there's something wrong.Either too much adding sounds (which usually is a sign for your song not working at the core basic level) or you should have bounced group tracks to audio and flatten a few other tracks -> translates to making a decision.

I just still don't take 100 tracks for one song as granted and don't think it's neccessary.
to be sure, i don't entirely disagree. BUT, discussing what's normal is just silly

y'all have no idea what i'm trying to accomplish when i'm mixing (or anyone else, for that matter). i use certain plugins on every track just to get an "analog" sound. add to that a HPF. that's 3 plugs right there

fx returns don't necessarily need that "analog" treatment. so that's 1-2 plugins

i use more plugins for EQ and comp, ducking etc. that's all typical stuff dating back to the dark ages. and the mix buss has at least 4 plugins (not unusual in the least)

so...wtf you talking about? :)

if you want to hear one of my mixes let me know. i'll show you mine if you show me yours. lol

p.s. i've never done anything with 100 tracks, not even close. however, consider that you are questioning the decisions of ppl who are making millions with their music and a grammy here and there. of course, if you're one of those ppl then by all means do tell us

eyeknow
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by eyeknow » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:19 am

60-120 pertrack! Must be PHAT! :lol:

ian_halsall
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by ian_halsall » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:49 am

I was working on a 3.5 gig project last night - multiple instances of kontakt, reaktor, massive, operator, turnado, alchemy.

Around 35 tracks.

No issues except running out of memory.

Tarekith
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by Tarekith » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:27 pm

You forgot what you were doing because there were so many plug ins?


:wink:

ian_halsall
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by ian_halsall » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:37 pm

Tarekith wrote:You forgot what you were doing because there were so many plug ins?


:wink:
not really - just working on ideas - like to have all my favourite sounds at hand and ready to go rather than having to load and unload them etc..

when I finalise the sounds for the song I might delete some of them just to make it easier to understand what's going on

ian_halsall
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by ian_halsall » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:40 pm

I just realised that OP has been working with Ableton for 10 years - that's a hell of a long recording session.

Take a break man.

Tarekith
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by Tarekith » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:52 pm

ian_halsall wrote:
Tarekith wrote:You forgot what you were doing because there were so many plug ins?


:wink:
not really - just working on ideas - like to have all my favourite sounds at hand and ready to go rather than having to load and unload them etc..

when I finalise the sounds for the song I might delete some of them just to make it easier to understand what's going on
I'm done making jokes....

ian_halsall
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by ian_halsall » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:55 pm

Tarekith wrote:
ian_halsall wrote:
Tarekith wrote:You forgot what you were doing because there were so many plug ins?


:wink:
not really - just working on ideas - like to have all my favourite sounds at hand and ready to go rather than having to load and unload them etc..

when I finalise the sounds for the song I might delete some of them just to make it easier to understand what's going on
I'm done making jokes....
I gotcha now - haha!

beats me
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by beats me » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:28 pm

sowhoso wrote:p.s. i've never done anything with 100 tracks, not even close. however, consider that you are questioning the decisions of ppl who are making millions with their music and a grammy here and there. of course, if you're one of those ppl then by all means do tell us

This reminds of a podcast I was listening to the other day and a less successful artist was talking about more successful artists selling out, to which the host said “Your reaction to artists making money is predictable.” :lol:

In somewhat defense of many tracks in a song, I’ve seen the layout of some pro producers DAW tracks and was 8O , but many of them use a separate track for each drum hit or a single track for a short sound that only happens once in the song. Whatever works for them.

leisuremuffin
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by leisuremuffin » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:44 pm

I am constantly mystified by what people think they NEED to do.

The first concern should be the quality of the material. Sound quality doesn't matter if your material is shit.

After that, the most important thing is to do the absolute best job you can with what you have. That means, if you are working on a 2" tape 24 track, you can't have 40 tracks. You don't cry about it, you work within your limitations. Believing that having that extra gear you lust for, or 5 more plugins on a track, or improved PDC is going to make your music a stunning masterpiece is simply not true. And that kind of thinking is extremely counter productive. The only thing that will make a great track with a great mix is a lot of hard work.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

Tone Deft
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Re: After 10 years with ableton I just tried Studio One...

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:52 pm

...and practice.

but yeah, so very true.

new toys amuse the muse but that only lasts so long. then you're stuck with the same ol' no-talent fart sniffing shit-fer-brains asshole between the keyboard and chair.

what the hell did I eat last night???
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

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