saving track presets inside dummy clips

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tbdemon
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:32 am

saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by tbdemon » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:42 am

I have posted this topic all over, trying to find an answer, re pasting to save my fingers.


"...Put another way, I want to snapshot all settings of a single track (all devices) to a dummy clip on that track. This way, when i trigger that clip, it will recall the setting of the devices and make your sound (or visuals in my case) the same as it was when you saved it.

To anyone familiar with DMX lighting, I am attempting to mimic a simple DMX controller inside ableton. (move your faders to select a "look", save "look" as a scene, repeat to build a static show--->in performance: recall individual scenes/ build follow actions to make a light show.

I imagine this could also be thought of as switching instrument "patches" via a midi dummy clip.

How I am doing it now: (I am using the DMXis VST on 1 track and a rack of Vizzable 2.1 plugins on another track. The process is the same for either.)
1) I make a dummy clip on my lighting track( this track has the DMXis VST on it, and all my parameters are mapped to a physical controller)
2) I move my knobs til the lights/visuals look how i want them to
3A) I go into the dummy clip, in the envelope section, I select my VST/rack(top drop down menu),
3B )then I have to go through each item in the parameter list (2nd drop down menu) and place a breakpoint on that envelope.

The issue is I have to do step 3B for EVERY PARAMETER. As you can imagine, this could take a long time if you have a big parameter list.
!!!***I want a way to place all those breakpoints automatically. ***!!!

The main issue is, if you dont do every parameter, you get very odd results. Some paramters will change and others wont, or if you twist a knob accidentally, it can throw off the whole scene.
My light show has about 150 channel of DMX, so to make a single static scene, I have to place 150 break points, per dummy clip. Doing it this way works... but its SOOOOOO SLOW.
BUT the functionality is stellar: Trigger a scene, you play audio, trigger lights/visuals. A perfectly synced show (and you can style improvise on the fly!!!!!)

I have to think this is possible. I would pay for it ( eventually I am going to explore a M4L solution, I have to get this process streamlined!!!)


Hope that clarifies things....we are getting close
The Doctor Is In

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:29 am

Bump!

I would be interested in a solution as well, as this would be very useful also for saving different instrument settings as sounds in clips when doing sound design.
(For this not as a dummy clip - but the principle should be the same)
Basically it is a snap shot of ALL parameter settings on a channel (or device) printed to the clips.

Fugazi81
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by Fugazi81 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:38 pm

Hi,

i know two solutions for this task.

1. ClyphX -> Snap Action (X-Clips) or Snap Track

can store and recall Snapshots of Track and Device settings.

The number of parameters to get "snaped" is configurable through user settings.

Works great with Live 9.


2. Kapture (M4L) and Kapture PAD (iOS)

Kapture

"Kapture was designed as a "preset manager for the whole of Ableton Live," and allows you to
take a snapshot of the state of your Set and save it as a Kapture preset."

I couldn´t get it to work properly with Live 9.

Kapture Pad
"Kapture Pad was discontinued on July 1 2013. There will be no further updates, however support will continue until December 31 2013."

No future updates.


Have fun!

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:53 pm

Fugazi81 wrote:Hi,

i know two solutions for this task.

1. ClyphX -> Snap Action (X-Clips) or Snap Track

can store and recall Snapshots of Track and Device settings.

The number of parameters to get "snaped" is configurable through user settings.

Works great with Live 9.
Thanks a lot! This seems to solve the problem I and the OP have, depending how easy it is to set snaped parameters to "All", and how practical it is to recall those settings. They are not saved as break points in the clip itself, right? So how do you assign this snap shot to one specific clip? Is it done via program change or via different means?

In any case it seems that it is about time for me to look into and learn clyphX finally !

Fugazi81
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by Fugazi81 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:57 pm

So how do you assign this snap shot to one specific clip? Is it done via program change or via different means?

In any case it seems that it is about time for me to look into and learn clyphX finally !
I don´t know how it is saved ( some python magic :wink: ) but it is not a program change (so no midi etc).
The clip is the snapshot. Every clip can be a x-clip (snapshot clip).

example

insert a effect then setup a x-clip ->rename clip -> [Test] 1/SNAP DEVALL ->fire clip to "snap" all parameter states of all DEVices on Track 1
tweak some knobs on your effect ->create newclip +/ rename clip -> [Test] 1/SNAP DEVALL ->fire clip to "snap" all parameter states of the DEVices on Track 1

now you have two "x-clips" -> if you fire a clip the "snaped" values get triggered.


But you could do a lot more.
ClyphX is free and has a well written manual.

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:28 pm

Fugazi81 wrote:
So how do you assign this snap shot to one specific clip? Is it done via program change or via different means?

In any case it seems that it is about time for me to look into and learn clyphX finally !
I don´t know how it is saved ( some python magic :wink: ) but it is not a program change (so no midi etc).
The clip is the snapshot. Every clip can be a x-clip (snapshot clip).

example

insert a effect then setup a x-clip ->rename clip -> [Test] 1/SNAP DEVALL ->fire clip to "snap" all parameter states of all DEVices on Track 1
tweak some knobs on your effect ->create newclip +/ rename clip -> [Test] 1/SNAP DEVALL ->fire clip to "snap" all parameter states of the DEVices on Track 1

now you have two "x-clips" -> if you fire a clip the "snaped" values get triggered.


But you could do a lot more.
ClyphX is free and has a well written manual.
Thanks for your help! :!:
I've been reading up in ClyphX in the mean time and start to understand what it does.
Amazing, is all I'll say!!! This should definitely also help the OP.

Just one more question though to clarify: These "x-clips" can still also contain the midi notes or audio data, right?!

Fugazi81
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by Fugazi81 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:18 pm

Fugazi81 wrote:Thanks for your help! :!:
I've been reading up in ClyphX in the mean time and start to understand what it does.
Amazing, is all I'll say!!! This should definitely also help the OP.

Just one more question though to clarify: These "x-clips" can still also contain the midi notes or audio data, right?!
Yes, every clip can be a "x-clip".

I use new/dedicated midi tracks for specific ClyphX actions. You can simply add new clips for specific clyphx actions.

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:06 pm

Fugazi81 wrote:
Fugazi81 wrote:Thanks for your help! :!:
I've been reading up in ClyphX in the mean time and start to understand what it does.
Amazing, is all I'll say!!! This should definitely also help the OP.

Just one more question though to clarify: These "x-clips" can still also contain the midi notes or audio data, right?!
Yes, every clip can be a "x-clip".

I use new/dedicated midi tracks for specific ClyphX actions. You can simply add new clips for specific clyphx actions.
Very good!
And thanks for all your input! :-)

tbdemon
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:32 am

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by tbdemon » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:30 pm

BOOM BABY
thanks a ton Fugazi. I am surprised I have not come across this sooner. I use a TON of control channels in my live set, (mostly via IAC driver hack methods or Bomes Translator) but this is by far a more elegant solution.

First test successful. It works with the vizzable 2.1 M4L plugins I am using. I have all my viz tracks grouped. I set parameters via my ctrl surface, make new clip and rename and BOOM. it just F@$king works!!!!!!

And as I write this running into issues.
1) clip names that ClyphX auto produces are LOOOOOOONG. So long that I can not save them individually (possibly a deal breaker)
2) my otherwise stable set crashed from trying to save this long ass clip.
Workaround for this is to save the whole track as .als (clips will save/load with it) This might actually be just fine since I can then build out my whole vizual "rack" and save that as a set that I can drag into ANY future set.
It would be nice to save individual clips (I am assuming it because clip name is so long), especially for instrument presets.
However using my workaround, Clips(with huge names) save and can be seen inside the .als in browser...... this one stumps me

Either way, we are on the right track / found a solution.

Anyone have experiences with the stability of this?

I am going to try to move some things around as to minimize the clip lengths/ streamline my rig to work with ClyphX. This is an AWESOME script with a lot of potential. Can't wait to dive in and see where it takes me.

P.S. Kapture was not a viable solution for this. It does save the state or your whole state or track, but you have to recall it from inside the device. It doesn't seem like you can recall Kapture presets with MIDI mapping either. I could hack it using Bomes, but my goal is to get away from hacks.

Thanks to you all a million times over. This is the final key in my master set. Hopefully this weekend I can get it flattened out, documented and release some vids.
PLAYTIME and GO!!!!!
The Doctor Is In

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:43 pm

And as I write this running into issues.
1) clip names that ClyphX auto produces are LOOOOOOONG. So long that I can not save them individually (possibly a deal breaker)
2) my otherwise stable set crashed from trying to save this long ass clip.
From what I gathered, the clip name length is exactly the problem. In a post in his forum (http://beatwise.proboards.com/) he said as much and stated that he will note this in the manual. So it seems a fix is not on the way. But I think it's best to just sign up there and ask him. He (Stray) is very responsive!

tbdemon
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:32 am

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by tbdemon » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:00 pm

ahh ha, culprit identified.
From what I gather it must be that ableton can not store folder names over XX length, but clips can be longer (I think)

If this is the case it seems my work around will suffice. Just save your whole track. This actually may prove a better solution in the long run, less folder structure.
The Doctor Is In

Fugazi81
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by Fugazi81 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:27 pm

tbdemon wrote:BOOM BABY
thanks a ton Fugazi. I am surprised I have not come across this sooner.
PLAYTIME and GO!!!!!
Iam glad it worked for you 8)




Have Fun!

Nurotek
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:57 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by Nurotek » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:32 pm

i only recently learned about clyphx, one thing im tring to do is setup a midi channel to trigger events on another track. i got the basics, triggering the bpm and metronome. reading through the manual gives or most of the data however, for this instance, im using it for DJing and i want to have a scene that resets all the devices back to default ( or to a setting that will do what i want / sidechain, beat repeat, etc.).

any assistance ?

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: saving track presets inside dummy clips

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:24 pm

Nurotek wrote:i only recently learned about clyphx, one thing im tring to do is setup a midi channel to trigger events on another track. i got the basics, triggering the bpm and metronome. reading through the manual gives or most of the data however, for this instance, im using it for DJing and i want to have a scene that resets all the devices back to default ( or to a setting that will do what i want / sidechain, beat repeat, etc.).

any assistance ?
That's exactly what the Snap function of Clyphx does. Just read up on it in the manual, it's explained pretty clearly.
If you still have questions later just ask.

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