Warping Multitrack Projects

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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tbuechse
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Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by tbuechse » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:31 pm

Dear Live Producers,

coming from traditional recording, what is your experience in warping whole (nonclicked) multitrack performances. E.G Jazzproductions, classical stuff, to tighten it up or spotting them for TV Cues etc.

Thank you
Best
Tim
Last edited by tbuechse on Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
iMac DuoCore 3 Ghz, MacBook 2 Ghz, Ableton Live Suite, MBox2, Fireface 800

SuburbanThug
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Re: Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by SuburbanThug » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:25 pm

It's really annoying to learn at first and there are only a couple of videos available to help you but once you figure it out it's quite powerful. Good luck, save many different versions and don't get too frustrated!

tbuechse
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Re: Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by tbuechse » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:39 pm

Thank you for your response. So is there a kind of beat detective way like changing the sensititivity or individualisation of the algorithm for transient markers. Every time I hit QUANTIZE live uses all of its (sometimes for my purposes unuseful) transient markers as well.

How can I bring live to only quantize my manually set yellow warp markers without having to drag each of those seperately.

Thank you
Best
Tim
iMac DuoCore 3 Ghz, MacBook 2 Ghz, Ableton Live Suite, MBox2, Fireface 800

regretfullySaid
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Re: Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by regretfullySaid » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:56 pm

If you click on a warp or transient marker and then select all (ctrl/cmd A), right click and there is an option to "Delete Transients", this will keep only your warp markers in tact and then it should quantize how you want it.
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tbuechse
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Re: Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by tbuechse » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:27 am

oh yes, thats cool...Thanks,

but no way to change sensitivity?
In which situations BTW would you add the "pivot" Warp Markers set left and right to your intended warp marker in the middle. (CMD click)

Cheers
Tim
iMac DuoCore 3 Ghz, MacBook 2 Ghz, Ableton Live Suite, MBox2, Fireface 800

regretfullySaid
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Re: Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:54 am

If you mean sensitivity as in how many transients are automatically placed, there isn't an option for that. It's either Live decides 100% or you do it all manually.
I keep my preferences to not warp any audio that's brought in and just do it all manually, I see no benefit in having transient markers for warping or slicing.
If you mean sensitivity as amount of qunatization, then Shift-cmd/ctrl-U will give you your quantize option and you can choose your percentage aka "sensitivity". I tend to have it around 80-85% to keep some humanity.

Not sure what you mean with "pivot" markers...
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tbuechse
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Re: Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by tbuechse » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:45 am

thanks,

the pivot markers appear when you cmd double click in the marker area to add a manual warp marker.

Importing Audio:

I switched off the "warp long samples" option in the preferences, but had some issues when importing shorter audio material, which was warped, but I´m not sure about the "unwarped one shot" - Option in the warp section of the preferences. So how do you turn automatic warping off completely (Long AND short samples)?

Okay.
Say, I want to warp a complete drum set recording with bass drum, snare, hihat, overheads etc. How would you do that, what are the key points in workflow to focus on?

The main problem in my oppinion is to keep over bleeding in mind, so if you fix one track the others should follow the same way. The manual adjustment only takes place in the nearby area around the transients. So it would be a thing with manual set warp markers, slave and master assignment of those tracks and so on. Strip silence would be an appropriate method, too.

What is your experience here in LIVE9?

Thank you!
iMac DuoCore 3 Ghz, MacBook 2 Ghz, Ableton Live Suite, MBox2, Fireface 800

regretfullySaid
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Re: Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:53 pm

Ah ok, I consider the pivot markers to be transient markers. Any grey markers should be useless in this context, so I would just manually create the yellow warp marker.

For turning off auto-warp comletely, I haven't noticed any warping with unwarped one-shot selected, so that'll probably be your best bet (along with auto-warp long samples turned off).
For doing it all at once, have you seen this tutorial? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WRUIzfDxPw
I think that addresses your mention of slave and master assignments. I think you'll still have to warp all the tracks like the above tutorial shows to keep everything tight. Well, maybe it will work as you mentioned...if not, warp em all but still slave after the fact.

Another way you could do it is if you just warped one track, you could extract the groove of that whole track, and then apply that groove to the rest of the tracks, which I've done before and it works fine. There is a caveat to that though when it comes to how you'll deal with the warp mode/s on your tracks. If you want to keep the original fidelity in tact (even if you couldn't tell the difference that the whole tracks are in complex/pro mode) I would slice only certain areas of the tracks that are warped and have those as Complex Pro mode, and then keep the unwarped areas in Repitch mode.

Example: Keep a track in Repitch mode and either keep all the markers that Live setup intially or make some new ones (for the sake of the example) and quantize the track 100% (you may have to select all the markers). You'll hear the pitch shifting between all those markers (which can be a cool effect in itself).

So instead of keeping the whole track in Complex Pro mode to keep the pitch, slice the audio before and after the warped areas and only keep those as Complex Pro and keep the rest as Repitch.

Experience with warping in 9 is the same as 8, so I don't think there's an advantage to using 9 for this.
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H20nly
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Re: Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by H20nly » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:43 pm

*bookmark*

Jesse
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Re: Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by Jesse » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:20 pm

Hi Guys,
I did a step by step here:
http://www.jethroe.com/2011/07/04/how-t ... eton-live/
Jesse

tbuechse
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:29 am

Re: Warping Multitrack Projects

Post by tbuechse » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:00 am

Dear Shadx & Jesse!!!

Thanks so much!!!!
that kind of tightening up the drum tracks is pretty cool. I worked with beat detective, but this workflow is very helpful and I would think like more time saving with a little practice. Super!!

Lets dig in a bit more, if you like. :roll:

How can I get this whole drums multitrack thing quantized to MPC Grooves, Swing etc.
My direction to check that out now would be this:

1)Is it possible to only quantize the manually set warp markers with the chosen quantization grooves, CMD+U etc.?
or
2) Is it more helpful to use the (many) transient markers LIVE applies automaically, which on the other hand seem a bit uncontrollable if I apply the Quantize command to all drum tracks, I feel.

As there is no sensitivity parameter to reduce the amount of those transient markers, I have to decide to leave them in or delete them, I guess. Whats a good workaround humanizing the feel here?

Thank you
Cheers
Tim
iMac DuoCore 3 Ghz, MacBook 2 Ghz, Ableton Live Suite, MBox2, Fireface 800

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