Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
ObiKaNobi
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Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by ObiKaNobi » Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:39 pm

I posted a thread about a week, maybe a week and a half ago with this question. I got some responses but due to work I failed to update the thread.

I'm still having this issue. It's a simple one, I'm sure you more advanced users can quickly fix this for me.

I'm working on a track. I've got my 4/4 kick, and I've got my hi-hats going. Now I have a bass sound that is a .wav file. It's a one pitch, one tone reversed bass sound I like. However, what I want to do is take this sound and turn it into midi so I can pitch it up and down to make a proper bassline for my song.

How do I do this? First thing I do is load up Simpler and Sampler. I drop my audio file into both and while the root note sounds the same as the original file, if I play it in a lower note on my midi keyboard it sounds detuned (as expected) but also slowed down slightly. Same goes for if I play a higher note on my midi controller, it sounds uptuned (as expected) but faster. This is not what I want, as in context to the song it doesn't sound right.

All I am doing is dropping my .wav files into Simpler and Sampler, both instruments cause this problem.

My question is...how can I transpose this audio up and down without affecting it's speed?

(P.S. Admins/Mods - I'll delete my previous thread to get rid of clutter. I know it's a pain to have multiple threads of the same question open)

chapelier fou
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by chapelier fou » Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:53 pm

Assuming you are using a midi keyboard.
I would warp your note in an audio clip. Then set the clip quantize to something around 1/16th. In midi screen, map the clip to a range of key (press the bottom key, keep it pressed whil you press the top key).
It will make a playable clip.

Next step (or as a replacement if you don't have any midi keyboard), you could resample each pitched note and drag them in a sampler.
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ObiKaNobi
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by ObiKaNobi » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:21 pm

I was suggested this previously...

Is the problem reoccurring because I'm not warping it?

So every pitch I want to transpose the audio file to I have to warp it?

chapelier fou
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by chapelier fou » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:25 pm

That's called : 'physics' or 'how the world works'.
Kidding aside, simpler and sampler don't stretch audio and don't use any warping algorithm.

yeah i would do that. Resample and make a drum rack or a sampler containing as many pitched notes as you would want to use.
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jestermgee
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by jestermgee » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:42 am

If you have a nice clean bassline you should be able to create a nice loop in Sampler and moving up/down the scale shouldn't matter within an octave.

If your bass sample has any effect, phase, pulsing etc then yes, when you picth down it will play the sample slower to make it lower. As fou said, that's how it "works"

If you decide to do the warping rout to try and make it stay the same speed at different pitches (pitch shifting it) you may find it loses its punch.

Most sample based instruments will consist of dozens (hundreds/thousands) of samples at different pitches and accents to re-create the real thing.

It would be easier to try and recreate your bassline in a synth instrument that takes care of the rest but have fun in the process whatever you choose to do.

Willyum
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by Willyum » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:03 pm

you have to write to ableton directly and tell them you need time stretch/pitch shift abilities in simpler/sampler. if enough of us do it, eventually they will add this feature. also '+1' all the threads you come across about time stretch (we've been requesting this for years).

ObiKaNobi
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by ObiKaNobi » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:33 pm

Okay, I'm back!

Sorry I take so long to respond...

Any way...I'm still a little confused here...

What exactly should I do to transpose the audio clip?

I've got it in a simple channel of it's own, when I click on the clip and go to the "sample" section on the bottom left, transposing it there doesn't make it sound proper.

Also, I really don't want to be doing it this way to begin with. Is there really no way to make this audio clip a midi track in a sense, this way I can just play various pitches of the clip with my midi keyboard?

yur2die4
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by yur2die4 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:13 pm

As I mentioned in your other thread, use clip transpose.

You can do a surprising amount of things utilizing this method.

As for time vs sound quality, even with a decent sampler, the retain meant of quality is mostly just an illusion.

To keep a decent sound quality in a clip, change the warping algorithm to something suitable to your tone. It might take a few different tries and adjustments.

To 'play' the loop, you can assign a keyboard range to the Audio Clip in Session View. Then each key you press will transpose the bass note in relation to its original tone.

If you don't want to constantly retrigger the clip, change it to Legato, also if you want 'instant' pitch change, Or quantized, change the quantization for the specific clip. If you only want the clip to Start when you hit a key, and stop when you let go, change the launch settings.

You can do a lot with a sample as a clip. You just can't do polyphony.

ObiKaNobi
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by ObiKaNobi » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:33 pm

I feel so silly trying to figure this out, cause what you're explaining to me sounds simple enough, but when I try to implement it, it just doesn't come out sounding right.

I'm trying to make this simple major key bass line. C, E and G are the notes I'm trying to play, in no particular order. The audio clip itself is a C note, so I've got that covered, now all I'm trying to do is transpose it to an E and a G. I'd really prefer to turn the clip itself into some form of midi track so I can have all 3 notes in one channel, rather than 3 different audio clips for each individual note (Unless I'm thinking about this the wrong way?)

As for your second suggestion, assigning a keyboard range to the clip? I did a little research into that...tried out a method or two which involved me assigning the clip to 3 notes on my keyboard, supposedly to transpose it to those notes, but that didn't work as planned and only produced a high pitch keyboard sound along with the original clip.

Kudos to whoever is being patient enough to continue helping me out. I really appreciate it. I'm sure I'll figure this out somehow, it's just nice to have some help and advice along the way. It really seems like a silly issue for such a powerful program to have. I view Live as this big powerful program meant for live production as well as studio, I'd imagine they meant for the users to be working mostly in audio format, and to not have a way to easily transpose audio like you can midi? Seems rather silly. Or perhaps I'm the silly one for not knowing how to do it yet? :P

chapelier fou
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by chapelier fou » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:14 pm

chapelier fou wrote:map the clip to a range of key (press the bottom key, keep it pressed whil you press the top key).
It will make a playable clip.
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ObiKaNobi
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by ObiKaNobi » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:37 pm

chapelier fou wrote:
chapelier fou wrote:map the clip to a range of key (press the bottom key, keep it pressed whil you press the top key).
It will make a playable clip.
I tried doing that. Unless I'm doing something wrong...I clearly must be.

Mapping an audio clip to a key range, as it's called, just results in it playing the original clip when I press any of the 3 notes used to map with. Along with adding a basic random keyboard sound (I have no idea where it comes from...it's just added to the clip itself...)

yur2die4
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:55 pm

Hold C in map mode. While holding C press G. There sill be a C to G label on top of the clip in Session View. Exit mapping mode.

That should at least transpose the clip to the same notes you press on your keyboard from C to G.

As for the noise, you might have a multichannel keyboard and then, anything unmapped would play tones through either your armed tracks, or possibly some random midi output you aren't aware of.

Make sure that this mapping is directly On the clip in Session View.

Btw, which warp mode are you currently using??

Muzik 4 Machines
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by Muzik 4 Machines » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:15 pm

load sample on a track
warp it
transpose it to your notes
export each transpose (in cplx mode probably)
load those notes in the sampler, map them and adjust root key
bingo you can now play your bass without the lenght being affected
if you REALLY like the sound, save a couple octaves worth of transpose (you seem picky about lenght so i suggest sampling every semitone)

ObiKaNobi
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by ObiKaNobi » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:23 pm

yur2die4 wrote:Hold C in map mode. While holding C press G. There sill be a C to G label on top of the clip in Session View. Exit mapping mode.

That should at least transpose the clip to the same notes you press on your keyboard from C to G.

As for the noise, you might have a multichannel keyboard and then, anything unmapped would play tones through either your armed tracks, or possibly some random midi output you aren't aware of.

Make sure that this mapping is directly On the clip in Session View.

Btw, which warp mode are you currently using??
I go in to map mode. I select the audio clip. I map the clip itself to C and G on my midi controller. I exit map mode.

Now, whenever I press either the C or G notes on my controller, it triggers the clip, but not only does it trigger the clip but it plays a very basic keyboard sound right at the beginning. It transposes the clip down like I want it to (It's still one audio clip itself though, one channel, not sure how I can put these into a drum rack or something to turn into midi).

As for what warp mode am I using...I'm not doing any warping to the audio clip itself, but it's on beat mode, for what it's worth...

chapelier fou
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Re: Transposing .wav files (w/ Simpler and or Sampler)

Post by chapelier fou » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:54 pm

99% sure that you are triggering the AU DLS synth on a mac, or something similar on windows. This would explain the piano sound. Classic.
Go to the preferences and try to fix that !
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