upgrade from Ableton's standard synths?

[Tomsk]

I have Live 9 suite and so far am quite happy with everything it offers, I don’t have any 3rd party plug ins and mainly use Analog and Operator for synth duties – I’m reasonably happy with the results I get. It’s a minor thing, but one thing I dislike is the cramped nature of the interface of these two.

So NI have some of their soft synths for sale, Massive in particular. I wasn’t willing to spend full price on this but 50% off is now in my ballpark. Is this a good upgrade over what Ableton’s synths offer? Am I going to be able to make lots of sounds I simply can’t make with Analog and Operator? Is Massive easier to use? Does introducing a 3rd party synth introduce complications?

I’m really looking for a “one synth to rule them all” thing which I've heard this is pretty good at. My plan would be to switch to using only this and master it. Anything else to consider in this price range or should I stick with what I’ve got?

Thanks in advance.

[Tarekith]

If you're ahppy with the sounds you're getting with Live's synths, I would say don't let a sale tempt you away just yet. Sure you might get some different sounds that you're used to with what you have now, that happens with anything you new you buy. While the Komplete interfaces might be laid out better in some cases, that's not to say it will offset the amount of time it's going to take you to learn all those new synths like you do the ones you already have.

[thunderkyss]

I’m really looking for a “one synth to rule them all” thing which I've heard this is pretty good at. My plan would be to switch to using only this and master it. Anything else to consider in this price range or should I stick with what I’ve got?

Understandable. Everyone has to find their own voice. Just because you're looking means you haven't found it yet.

I'm a huge NI fan, & a big fan of Massive. If $99 is your threshold, do it. The possibilities are endless, as it is with any synth, even Operator. If you like what you hear on NI's site, or on youtube, go for it.

[login]

Personally I would get Razor and Monark, as both ofer stuff operator and analog can't do: better analog emulation and additive synthesis.

WHile massive is very powerfull operators ofers you a lot in the wave department, and many modulation tricks can be achieved wioth M4l devices.

Also Razor and monark have simple interfaces if it is something you are struggling with.

[deva]

It really depends on what you like sonically. Some people love Massive. I find the sound a bit cold and hard. Hard and aggressive is what is 'in' these days. I like softer prettier sounds. I appreciate Massive as it is well designed, but the sound of it just doesn't thrill me. I've owned it for a long time, but hardly ever use it. I like Operator and Analog better.

I also have some 3rd party synths like Zebra, Diva and Alchemy (plus a few others). Zebra is my favorite all around workhorse synth. It has a vast sonic range and excellent sound quality. Diva is unmatched for flexible emulation of some classic analog synths and just sounds so rich and warm. I use Alchemy for manipulating my own recorded material.

So try various demos and see what suits you.

[mholloway]

Massive only sounds "cold and hard" to some because (whether they realize it or not) they're judging it based on the popular, modern style presets that are in (over) abundance for it. It doesn't have to sound cold nor hard. It can create a huge range of sounds. Yeah it's got that formant buzzing dubstep shite, but it's hardly limited to that stuff. The UI is fantastic, the programmability is deep, the modulation is the best I've used in terms of workflow, and .. yeah. It rocks! I think if I was going to do a ton of programming on just one synth for a long period of time, Massive would be the choice.

[tedlogan]

Zebra is my favorite all around workhorse synth. It has a vast sonic range and excellent sound quality. Diva is unmatched for flexible emulation of some classic analog synths and just sounds so rich and warm.

Zebra. To me, the alpha and omega of synthesis. Couple this with Satin, and you have unmatched sonic warmth and juiciness. u-he is the coolest company I can think of. Perfectionism and great, if a bit ugly GUIs.

[re:dream]

Zebra is great.

[Tomsk]

thanks everyone, i downloaded the Massive demo last night - so many presets! Tonight i'm going to try and get the Zebra demo, but its way more than i wanted to spend - i've been spoilt by cheap ios synths

[TomViolenz]

thanks everyone, i downloaded the Massive demo last night - so many presets! Tonight i'm going to try and get the Zebra demo, but its way more than i wanted to spend - i've been spoilt by cheap ios synths

Zebra might be not so cheap now, and they almost never lower the price, but it gets constantly updated with really good stuff and the upgrade path at U-He is really well priced! It isn't a gift, but it keeps on giving
But Massive is also very good as are the other synth mentioned here.
It's a matter of taste.
If you can't affoard 'em yet, better save up and make do with what you have, Analog and Operator.
I think learning their very simple layouts will teach you a lot about synthesis that will always benefit you on all synth.

Or you could do what I do and build Sampler into a quite different synth for just 40 bucks of an investment in the Galbanum Architecture single cycle waveforms.

When you do this you will have only two oscillators (they can do AM and FM), but they are extremely flexible! 21 different types for one and a free choice of 128 different types of the other!
Add to this, quite good envelpopes for EVERYTHING, good filters (check out the morph filters!) and 3 LFOs and 1 Aux envelope!
(If you then get Push you can do all of this without ever touching the mouse in your sound design sessions! Just ask in the Push forum for the community mapping )

[Tomsk]

This decision just got harder as Alchemy has gone on sale at 50% off. Mmmmmmmmm.

[XSIMan]

u-he ACE and DIVA are my synths I don't use any other now.
DIVA has the best supersaw sound now.

Zebra got a tube emulation effect added which can also be used as a standalone effect on it's own.

ACE is a bargin a lot cheaper than the others and it will give you the best sounding subtractive analogue synth. It runs on multiple cores so it's a lot easier to run than it used to be.

Demo all the synths before you buy any.

[tedlogan]

thanks everyone, i downloaded the Massive demo last night - so many presets! Tonight i'm going to try and get the Zebra demo, but its way more than i wanted to spend - i've been spoilt by cheap ios synths

Zebra might be not so cheap now, and they almost never lower the price, but it gets constantly updated with really good stuff and the upgrade path at U-He is really well priced! It isn't a gift, but it keeps on giving
But Massive is also very good as are the other synth mentioned here.
It's a matter of taste.
If you can't affoard 'em yet, better save up and make do with what you have, Analog and Operator.
I think learning their very simple layouts will teach you a lot about synthesis that will always benefit you on all synth.

Or you could do what I do and build Sampler into a quite different synth for just 40 bucks of an investment in the Galbanum Architecture single cycle waveforms.

When you do this you will have only two oscillators (they can do AM and FM), but they are extremely flexible! 21 different types for one and a free choice of 128 different types of the other!
Add to this, quite good envelpopes for EVERYTHING, good filters (check out the morph filters!) and 3 LFOs and 1 Aux envelope!
(If you then get Push you can do all of this without ever touching the mouse in your sound design sessions! Just ask in the Push forum for the community mapping )

Yes , Urs has stated they never do sales, so other people don't feel kneecapped who bought it as full price, but you get upgrades for life for free. Also, if you own Zebra 2, when Zebra 3 comes out next year (hopefully), it'll cost you a mere $30! ... 30!

[Nick the Zombie]

I've been in love with Zebra, Massive & Alchemy for third party synths lately. However, when it comes to just sitting down and making a sound, Analog and Operator still take the cake. I recommend pairing them with some interesting effects rack creations of your own, though. I see Live's tools more as a set of modules that go well together rather than trying to make each tool do everything, though.

[tedlogan]

I've been in love with Zebra, Massive & Alchemy for third party synths lately. However, when it comes to just sitting down and making a sound, Analog and Operator still take the cake. I recommend pairing them with some interesting effects rack creations of your own, though. I see Live's tools more as a set of modules that go well together rather than trying to make each tool do everything, though.

Yes, even though I'm totally in love with Zebra 2 paired with Satin, I agree with this. I've realised over the years that Live can also be one big modular softsynth, and that you really need to ignore the mostly shitty instrument presets.

You can for example, place 2 instances of Operator in a rack and detune the two for that big sawtooth unison sound, then maybe chuck in a few M4L LFOs to modulate, well, anything, add filters where you like etc.

So you have a lot of what Zebra 2 has just not quite as conveniently placed together. You've got infinite oscillators via stacking, filters, LFOs, MSEGs (in clips), arpeggiating with the device itself or Push's note sequencer, etc etc, and you can combine them in any way you like.

I do prefer what I come up with in Zebra though...