Suite+push or suite+maschine mkII

[Fritz609]

I only own Pro Tools LE 8(stock plug-ins only), MPC2500, Korg Triton Extreme 88. Too much work trying to create in pro tools. It kills my creative flow. Ok......this is my issue.
Push:
Push is integrated with Live More than Maschine is integrated with Live...But...not sure if i really need ALL of Push's features (didnt like the step sequencer when i tried it in guitar center) so i would mostly use it for drum racks, chords, and creating clips. Although, you Never know what you WONT use until you see EVERYTHING you CAN do. Im not a good piano player so i dont know shit about scales(i just simply play by ear) and figured the Push could help me get out some better melodies. Some of the features and lack there of that people have complained about(this forum and others) steers me away from Push and wanting to wait for second Gen but that may be forever and a day...i already downloaded the Suite trial and loved it but with Push, it felt like a totally different program...maybe im crazy
Sorry for the long post..just tryna give as much detail about the situation
Maschine MkII:
Maschines pads are by far the best pads i have ever felt. You also get 2.0 and Massive, And Drum synth and in my opinion better Drums out the box(debatable)...all of this on top of suite instruments.when i tried it out at guitar center(same day i tried Push), I created a nice little drum sequence in like 1:00 minute as opposed to spending like 15:00 minutes with Push and getting almost same sequence. I got stuck when i couldnt figure out how to start a new scene to add some synths or something so i gave up on it. I know with a little more time, i wouldve gotten the hang of it as i am a very quick learner. A problem I have with maschine is, i heard its a PITA to get into another DAW(that is needed) and it is giving me flashbacks of tracking my external gear into Pro Tools and i really dont want that since I often change Ish around in old songs i return to. With Ableton, eerything is there. I also heard that effects put on sounds in Maschine dont transfer over to the Host DAW( please let me know if thats true). I also really dont care about NO MOUSE WORKFLOW since i started on garageband and LogicPro back in 2005. then there,s STUDIO...(which would be purchased by itself due to budget leaving me with no Ableton and only Pro Tools...not sure if thats a bad thing)
With that said:
I saw the thread similar to this but after 48 pages of flaming, i figured i'd just start a new thread. I really hope everyone keeps the negative comments to themselves. All it does is prevent others from actually helping. Thank you in advance.

[Fritz609]

Oh yeah....mpd(18,26,or32) is also a possible and waaaaay cheaper option. Indecisive when it comes to this Ish.

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Push and suite

[TomViolenz]

This is a question of personal taste.
I would go Suite and Push after having used a Maschine MKI and Suite for 2 years. But that's just me.
There is nothing at all wrong with Maschine, especially if working in Live is not so important to you and you'd like to be able to use its functionality in other DAWs.
That said, I can only assume it's because you didn't try it long enough, but it is beyond me how one can not like the best step sequencer on the market. My time comparisons for new drum patterns would be about your 2 minutes in Maschine and less than 1 in Push. While that doesn't seem like much of a difference, that extra minute in Maschine was spend fighting the limitations of its step sequencer and not on creative fun. (not really Maschines fault, there is only so much you can achive with 16 pads).
Also having the drums there right in front of you on 16 pads in addition to the grid and loop control AND the 32 step step sequencer (in stead of 16), is so useful, I don't know how I did without on Maschine.
My suggestion would be to get either at a 30 money back place and try both to your hearts content in your own house and see what clicks with you.
Me?! I will sell my MKI, as great as it is, because with Push around it would just collect dust.

I totally agree on the samples/sounds in Maschine though, they are top notch!

[Fritz609]

@funk...thanks for the link. Seems to have some useful info.
@tom...i didnt really take alot of time out with the step sequencer as i was playing out the drums in real time. One thing i noticed though was in order to get a snare with reverb to play out the whole length of the sample, i had to edit the length of the midi notes manually on the sequencer on the computer screen. Not sure if it was how guitar center had their settings or i just didnt figure out how to do it from the Push. I had to switch between resolutions of the grid on the comp screen for each type of drum so the whole sample could be played out.... 1/8th for snare(longer notes), 1/16th for kick(medium length), and 1/32(quick short notes) for hihat. Not sure if im explaining correctly. Let me know if you dont understand what im saying. I felt some of the limitations of the sequencer on maschine. Editing notes in live was way more friendly than maschine. Cant really put it in words, its a little early for me. Did you have any problems with using maschine with live? Why the switch?

Seems like Push is the favorite but im scared to dive into it with all the complaints about the pads sensitivity problem. The rgb problem wouldnt bother me too much although I do hope the Push units being sold now are fixed.

[Grantos]

PUSH all the way

[Fritz609]

using live is the important part. Im just caught between controllers. Push integration and functionality better but maschine includes more sounds, massive, better drums and damn those F'n pads feel like butter. Sequencer not as good but i would have live and not sure if i could just skip around using maschines sequencer and record audio and midi directly into lives sequencer instead. If thats even possible.

[panten]

I was the guy who started that debacle of a thread 'Sitting on the fence'. As this topic seems to come up loads I'm going to try and go through the thread and filter out the noise to update the 1st post so that it's a bit more useful.

A thread similar to this one came up recently >click< where I consolidated some of the more important differences between these two machines. copy/paste

There are pros and cons to choosing either controller.


Maschine
Pros

• Fully hands on workflow (but see below)
• Excellent sampling workflow from the hardware.
• Great integration with it's own Libraries.

Cons

• Fully hands on workflow? = limited arrangement capability.
• Limited Octaves when wishing to play melodies/harmonies etc.
• Will have to work destructively (i.e. baking your MIDI to Audio) when making the switch to a full DAW for further editing. Presuming you want to keep automation etc.
• Can't be modified in the same way Push can.

Push
Pros

• Works really well for sketching out ideas and variations to build a song.
• Is integrated into Live so your automation and MIDI notes are already in the clips.
• Is highly moddable, meaning missing features can be fixed with user scripts. Looking at Stray and the amazing PXT-Live.
• Access to several octaves for pad work is a joy to me. I always felt so hindered by 16 pads and haven't used my keyboard since getting Push.
• Touch Sensitive Encoders are a joy to use. Only recording Automation when you touch the encoder is a really nice touch.

Cons

• The Live API seems unfortunately hobbled and as a result there is a limit to what can be controlled through user scripts. Having said this there is still a LOT that you can control.
• There are currently a lot of inconsistencies and workflow holes on the software side. e.g. the Delete button can't delete loops in the Drum Rack, you can only delete ALL MIDI notes on a pad in the clip or the whole clip itself. & why can't we hold Duplicate to copy/paste a clip into any slot we want?
• Lack of sample chopping workflow from the controller is a bit of a missed trick imho.
• Lack of 64 Drum Rack pads or with default Push.
• Browsing could be SO much better on Push. Preview of samples should be automatic while scrolling through them.

This isn't meant to be a definitive list of features, they are just the ones that seem so glaring to me and are supposed to highlight the differences between the controllers.

Good luck with deciding. I went with Push in the end as it just seemed to suit my workflow (and I'm REALLY glad I did); I just didn't fancy jumping through hoops to get my Maschine sketches onto the Arrangement view.

I'm one of the lucky ones to receive a near flawless Push. I've had no problems with the rgb quality or pad sensitivity.

p.s. I still want to get Maschine mkII at some point

[TomViolenz]

@funk...thanks for the link. Seems to have some useful info.
@tom...i didnt really take alot of time out with the step sequencer as i was playing out the drums in real time. One thing i noticed though was in order to get a snare with reverb to play out the whole length of the sample, i had to edit the length of the midi notes manually on the sequencer on the computer screen. Not sure if it was how guitar center had their settings or i just didnt figure out how to do it from the Push. I had to switch between resolutions of the grid on the comp screen for each type of drum so the whole sample could be played out.... 1/8th for snare(longer notes), 1/16th for kick(medium length), and 1/32(quick short notes) for hihat. Not sure if im explaining correctly. Let me know if you dont understand what im saying. I felt some of the limitations of the sequencer on maschine. Editing notes in live was way more friendly than maschine. Cant really put it in words, its a little early for me. Did you have any problems with using maschine with live? Why the switch?

Seems like Push is the favorite but im scared to dive into it with all the complaints about the pads sensitivity problem. The rgb problem wouldnt bother me too much although I do hope the Push units being sold now are fixed.

That's what I meant with immediate control of the grid. On your right hand side there is the column of grid control. If you press 1/8th the step sequencer turns into a grid of 8th notes. If you choose 1/8th Triplets it even blocks part of the button grid to reflect that.
On Maschine you can either record your drum playing, or step sequence, or choose the grid resolution, or choose the pad you want to step sequence
In Push you can do ALL of this at the same time!
This is a huge difference in workflow!
If you get the PXT script (20 bucks) you can also step sequence up to 8 pads at the same time. With a resolution of 8th notes, that's a whole bar of 8 drum elements that you can stepsequence at the same time! Can you imagine what this would do for your drum patterns?!
Also the parameter lock works differently in Maschine and I like Pushs behavior better. Also melody and chord step sequencing!

So, why am I selling Maschine?
Because after I found my specific workflow in Maschine (and I'm actually very greatful to Maschine, because it was what made me discover my workflow in the first place!), I realized that I can do all the things that are important to me in Maschine better in Push. Step-sequencing foremost. But I also used Maschines sampler not for drum shots like most people, but for sound design with single cycle waveforms, basically turning it into a quite uniqe synth. But Sampler in Live is vastly more powerful than the one in Maschine.
But to add something that might also concern you. I just found it complicated to go from patterns to songs in Maschines software, so I exported anything into Live anyway. Saving this step, allows me to spend more time actually making music!

[Fritz609]

@panten. Thanks for the info. That sort of summed it up for me. I was almost about to pass on both and get a mpd until a newer 2nd gen Push is released. Now rethinking that idea.

[TomViolenz]

(In case you missed it I edited my post with additional info)

@panten. Thanks for the info. That sort of summed it up for me. I was almost about to pass on both and get a mpd until a newer 2nd gen Push is released. Now rethinking that idea.

This is the worst approach of them all IMO, why would you want to limit youself like this?!

[panten]

Jesus Fritz, never get an MPD. The Pads are so horrendous that I modded mine 3 times and it still isn't a fraction as good as Push or Maschine pads. It may seem cheaper but at a price.

TomViolenz has hit the nail on the head with this,

I just found it complicated to go from patterns to songs in Maschines software, so I exported anything into Live anyway. Saving this step, allows me to spend more time actually making music!

With Maschine you will have that wall to break down in order to get a decent workflow with a DAW, with Push and Live there is no wall.

@FunkN The uneven pad sensitivity seems quite rare but I've heard a few reports that they settle in after a while. Also not all racks work great with Push out of the box. The Velocity and volume settings occasionally need to be fixed in a device instead of adjusting the Threshold curve on Push all the time.

[Fritz609]

Lol. I see the mpd idea is bust.
@tom...do you know i looked at those buttons and thought that they might actually do that and i talked myself out of it.lol. That just made my decision for me.
Thanks to everyone with the help. Push it is. Pretty sure ill be frequenting this forum for help later.

[TomViolenz]

Lol. I see the mpd idea is bust.
@tom...do you know i looked at those buttons and thought that they might actually do that and i talked myself out of it.lol. That just made my decision for me.
Thanks to everyone with the help. Push it is. Pretty sure ill be frequenting this forum for help later.

There is a specific Push forum here, why not come over?!
Here the Live community has made some really nice hacks, that make a good experience even better!
(Check the seapush color scheme and the community mapping of Lives devices particularly!)

[Fritz609]

Will do. Thanks