Who at Sweetwater is best contact re: Live?

[eyeknow]

I dunno, I deal with some guy named "mark" and he's cool as hell. No need for all the BS!

[oxytocin]

For you to consider right now would still be last generations non-Retina MacBook Pro. They have none of the downsides mentioned above (upgradability and screen) and you may get it cheaper nowadays in the refurb section on Apples website.
The CPU upgrade between the last generation was not so big (mainly somewhat better battery times and maybe 10% more speed). So that's the way I would go. I would probably get it with a quad core i7 and the minimum of Ram. Because that can be upgraded aftermarket for much cheaper. Same goes for the SDD harddrive.

That's been pretty much my thinking as well. Those mid-2012 non-Retina models are still available from retailers. My inclination is to go with the 13.3" model, which isn't quad-core but is i7 and has a faster GHz rating than its 15.4" counterpart.

Were you referring to the "CPU upgrade" differences between the last generation non-Retinas and the latest generation Retinas or something else?

And yeah, don't ask for Hugh Ath either

I actually thought that one might be legit. I didn't "get it" and still don't, actually. "Hugh Ath" = what? "You ass" (with a lisp)?

[yoyodyne]

Probably supposed to be "Hugh Jas."

Just be warned if you buy anything from Sweetwater the sales guy WILL HAUNT YOU TILL THE END OF YOUR DAYS.

Seriously. Like the clap.

Anyway, if you can live with that, ask for Mya, she's cool. Mya Butreeks.

[outsidesys]

Another funny one is to get a woman to use the name Mike Hunt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWiKmyzDJx8

[outsidesys]

use = say

[TomViolenz]

For you to consider right now would still be last generations non-Retina MacBook Pro. They have none of the downsides mentioned above (upgradability and screen) and you may get it cheaper nowadays in the refurb section on Apples website.
The CPU upgrade between the last generation was not so big (mainly somewhat better battery times and maybe 10% more speed). So that's the way I would go. I would probably get it with a quad core i7 and the minimum of Ram. Because that can be upgraded aftermarket for much cheaper. Same goes for the SDD harddrive.

That's been pretty much my thinking as well. Those mid-2012 non-Retina models are still available from retailers. My inclination is to go with the 13.3" model, which isn't quad-core but is i7 and has a faster GHz rating than its 15.4" counterpart.

Were you referring to the "CPU upgrade" differences between the last generation non-Retinas and the latest generation Retinas or something else?

I meant between last generation MBP and this MBP generation in general. (I don't remember the exact generation names from Intel)

I would probably take the quad core 15.4" because I think this may turn out to be the last pro laptop Apple has ever released (no upgradability = consumer toy IMO) So you better make it last.

And yeah, don't ask for Hugh Ath either

I actually thought that one might be legit. I didn't "get it" and still don't, actually. "Hugh Ath" = what? "You ass" (with a lisp)?

Yeah that was what I was going for, I was actually particularly proud of that one
But I guess with us Germans the lisp is permanent in English

[Tarekith]

Ted Hunter is my rep at Sweetwater and he's always been spot on with with either knowing the answers to any questions I might have about gear, or quickly putting me in touch with those who can. I believe he's one of their software specialists, but if not I'm sure he would know exactly who to put you in contact with.

[oxytocin]

I meant between last generation MBP and this MBP generation in general. (I don't remember the exact generation names from Intel)

The last non-Retina Macs came out in June 2012. Since then there have been three generations of Retinas (Oct. 2012, Feb. 2013, Oct. 2013). I don't know how significant the changes have been between the different Retina generations, but I'd guess that some of the changes between them and the mid-2012 non-Retinas would matter to some -- possibly not to Ableton users, though.

I would probably take the quad core 15.4" . . .

Why do you favor the 15" over the 13"?

I haven't run across much suggestion that 'quad-core' by itself is that significant, which is the only main advantage I'm aware of in the 15" (aside from also being a bit bigger).

Side-by-side in-store, the 13" screen actually looked clearer (less grainy) to me, even though the 15" resolution is slightly higher.

The 13" also has a higher GHz rating than the 15". In terms of best performance, I don't know which, between 'quad-core' v. 'dual-core' and 'higher GHz v. lower GHz' rating is more important -- do you?

. . . because I think this may turn out to be the last pro laptop Apple has ever released (no upgradability = consumer toy IMO)

I agree completely about the 'no upgradability' issue, but that by itself doesn't argue for 15" over 13" -- does it? (Another disadvantage for getting the 15" is that AppleCare -- should I decide to get it -- costs $100 more.)

Why would this latest one be the last pro laptap Apple releases -- i.e., why would Apple not keep making Retinas for a while? People like you and I who object to being spoon-fed non-upgradeable configurations may very well be in the minority of the overall consumer market.

You're German, that's shocking news. I was going to wonder aloud what the Ableton developers (being 'serious Germans') think of the seemingly numerous posts here that tend toward the frivolous. While in Berlin I once discussed Germans with an English couple and we concluded that, in stark contrast to the Brits, Germans "don't take the piss." You've proved me wrong. (Maybe you have some British ancestry.)

Germany looms for me. I'll move there within the next year or two (Berlin).

[TomViolenz]

I meant between last generation MBP and this MBP generation in general. (I don't remember the exact generation names from Intel)

The last non-Retina Macs came out in June 2012. Since then there have been three generations of Retinas (Oct. 2012, Feb. 2013, Oct. 2013). I don't know how significant the changes have been between the different Retina generations, but I'd guess that some of the changes between them and the mid-2012 non-Retinas would matter to some -- possibly not to Ableton users, though.

I would probably take the quad core 15.4" . . .

Why do you favor the 15" over the 13"?

I haven't run across much suggestion that 'quad-core' by itself is that significant, which is the only main advantage I'm aware of in the 15" (aside from also being a bit bigger).

The difference is the quad core, yes! For music production this is far from insignificant, as each track in your DAW can be computed by a different core.
So the extreme case that a quad core is twice as "fast" as a dual core. Is not so extreme in music production at all. So yes the quad core potentially doubles the power of your computer, while the slightly higher clock, is well, slightly higher.
With the generations I meant mainly the Intel chip generations, and there was only one between mid 2012 and late 2013. And the differences were mainly in energy efficiancy.

Why would this latest one be the last pro laptap Apple releases -- i.e., why would Apple not keep making Retinas for a while?

In my mind the retinas are not pro. They are not upgradable.

You're German, that's shocking news. I was going to wonder aloud what the Ableton developers (being 'serious Germans') think of the seemingly numerous posts here that tend toward the frivolous. While in Berlin I once discussed Germans with an English couple and we concluded that, in stark contrast to the Brits, Germans "don't take the piss." You've proved me wrong.

You have a lot to learn about Germans

(Maybe you have some British ancestry.)

lol, no.

Germany looms for me. I'll move there within the next year or two (Berlin).

I'm from Berlin, and while Germans in general don't quite fit the stereotype from above, for Berlin you just get a hardy laugh from me
You are in for a treat! (In all the good and the bad ways you might imagine)

[oxytocin]

The difference is the quad core, yes! For music production this is far from insignificant, as each track in your DAW can be computed by a different core.
So the extreme case that a quad core is twice as "fast" as a dual core. Is not so extreme in music production at all. So yes the quad core potentially doubles the power of your computer, while the slightly higher clock, is well, slightly higher.

Thanks for making me aware of that. I guess I better get the 15" then.

Can you clarify what you meant in the following (it's a bit confusing): You wrote that in an extreme case quad core is twice as fast. Then you wrote: "Is not so extreme in music production at all." You must have meant something else than how that reads, because it seems to contradict the sentence before it -- i.e., as written it appears to minimize the case for quad core for 'music production.' (And then the next sentence "So yes the quad core . . . etc" goes back to making a case for the importance of having the quad core.)

With the generations I meant mainly the Intel chip generations, and there was only one between mid 2012 and late 2013. And the differences were mainly in energy efficiancy.

Checking the website, I see that Apple has a refurbished October 2011 15" model available. That must have been the generation prior to the last non-Retina MacBook Pro's -- the last ones came out in June 2012. Do you know whether there were any important differences between the October 2011 model and the June 2012 model (processor chip, etc.)?

You have a lot to learn about Germans

I actually have had a lot of experience with Germans. Most I've encountered have a very good or even great sense of humor, but I stand by my overall opinion that they generally don't take the piss. (Which isn't necessarily undesirable, when you consider all the energy that Brits put into jabbing their elbows into each other's ribs. At times, it seems to be their main occupation.) But it is quite possible that I have a lot to learn about Germans like TomViolenz.

[TomViolenz]

Checking the website, I see that Apple has a refurbished October 2011 15" model available. That must have been the generation prior to the last non-Retina MacBook Pro's -- the last ones came out in June 2012. Do you know whether there were any important differences between the October 2011 model and the June 2012 model (processor chip, etc.)?

I think between these generations there was a jump of 10-15% in speed and energy efficiancy again. So it def. adds up. The chip is the only thing you can't upgrade. So if you plan to use it for many years, as I would, you should pobably look out for getting the faster chip in the last generation. I'm sure a mid 2012 model will hit the refurb section soon.

I don't know what was confusing about my description. 4 cores can do twice as much work than two, if the program is programed such that it can divide its tasks to 4 cores. DAWs do this on a per track level. So if you have 4 tracks in use you will utilize all 4 cores. While a dual core would have to have 2 tracks per core in this scenario. These cores would then have to work twice as hard obviously. The slightly higher clock speed will only help you so much with this.

You have a lot to learn about Germans

I actually have had a lot of experience with Germans. Most I've encountered have a very good or even great sense of humor, but I stand by my overall opinion that they generally don't take the piss. (Which isn't necessarily undesirable, when you consider all the energy that Brits put into jabbing their elbows into each other's ribs. At times, it seems to be their main occupation.) But it is quite possible that I have a lot to learn about Germans like TomViolenz.

Ah, I see. To be honest, I did not try to trick you from the start. I thought the names were obvious, as they were just copy/pasted from a site that collects Bart Simpson quotes. (Except the last one, that one my childish brain came up by itself ) I added the and emoticons for good measure. I learned that humor translates very badly on the internet.
But you are right, while Berlin humor can be pretty harsh, it is usually not intended to trick people!

[oxytocin]

I think between these generations there was a jump of 10-15% in speed and energy efficiancy again. So it def. adds up. The chip is the only thing you can't upgrade. So if you plan to use it for many years, as I would, you should pobably look out for getting the faster chip in the last generation. I'm sure a mid 2012 model will hit the refurb section soon.

Thanks, I'm on the hunt for a 2012 model even as we speak.

I don't know what was confusing about my description.

No, I understood all that perfectly, and thanks again for stressing its importance. I was only referring to: "Is not so extreme in music production at all." That to me was an argument against needing the extra power -- i.e., the need for it "is not so extreme in music." But it's ok, you must have meant something else, and your overall point (choose quad-core) is clear.

Ah, I see. To be honest, I did not try to trick you from the start. I thought the names were obvious, as they were just copy/pasted from a site that collects Bart Simpson quotes. (Except the last one, that one my childish brain came up by itself ;-))

I did start to wonder about the first ones almost immediately -- but gave you the benefit of the doubt by thanking you anyway. ;) Eventually I decided: okay he was taking the piss on those but Hugh Ath -- that looks and sounds so unlikely that it might even be for real. At least I guessed right about that one, too, eventually. (No one else here did.)