Bitwig 1.0

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
leisuremuffin
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by leisuremuffin » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:39 pm

stringtapper wrote: News flash: investing in being a musician can be expensive. And then it's hard to make a living at. And I'm talking about being an instrumentalist who actually works. Not a guy fucking around with beats in his underwear. Yes it's tough but all of the pros I know and work with invest in good tools for their craft.

Hey! I totally fuck around with beats in my underwear. But i found some people who were dumb/nice enough to put those beats on a record. Now I'm a professional musician.

(thinly veiled brag that i'm a super wealthy EDM superstar producer. My underwear are custom made for me and i eat caviar and shaved gold while fucking around with beats. I'm totally not actually super broke and living a fucked up nomadic lifestyle with few material things beyond my music shit. really. seriously.)
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

Nokatus
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by Nokatus » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:42 pm

njh wrote:I do think its too much to ask musicians and bedroom producers(who they are marketing to) to pay for software especially when you consider what else is out there and when you consider that bitwig is not original and really doesn't bring anything new.
Well, count me in as one who disagrees with everything you said :D

Like this: the price is not too high, and the "not original and really doesn't bring anything new" you have mentioned more than once... is basically just tired trolling. Objectively speaking, this software brings a lot to the table as the first ever alternative that includes (but isn't limited to) the paradigm Live has dominated for so long. Having used Live for about a decade (coming from a tracker background and Logic before it, nowadays also using Studio One a lot) and having quite broad experience on environments like this in production use, both music and sound design, I can appreciate what Bitwig is trying to do -- and it seems to be doing it very well.

The way you see "bedroom producer" in the marketing is just as biased as you see "not original and doesn't bring anything new." That's my impression at the moment, anyway: please link the overwhelming majority of their marketing material that emphasizes this being a product for "bedroom producers."

At least on their front page the software is being marketed as follows: "It is the result of passionate musicians wanting a more natural way to create music and sound. Bitwig Studio is a multi-platform music-creation system for production, remixing and performance with a focus on flexible editing tools and a super-fast workflow."
njh wrote:You people that say $400.00 is reasonable are being selfish by not realizing there is another world out there full of "2nd and 3rd world countries" who cant afford $400.00 for software. What are you going to tell them people to do, get a job and save?
Tough luck getting Live either, then :P. As Bitwig also runs on Linux, hopefully you can appreciate that the "high starting cost" of $400 means that the hypothetical customers you speak of can indeed install a free OS even if they'd like to use a DAW of this particular paradigm. Before this, they would have needed to pay (more) for Live, and on top of that, purchase a commercial OS.

njh
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by njh » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:43 pm

stringtapper wrote:
njh wrote:Why are you telling me what the cost of the most expensive instrument you own is?
To illustrate a point. Would it have been easier on your fragile sensibilities if I had said it was "my friend's" instrument?

njh wrote:Do you want an award for being able to afford an instrument that cost $4,800?
Uh, the instrument was the award. That's how commerce works.

njh wrote:Most MUSICIANS especially young ones can not afford $400 for a redundant piece of software.
You've met most musicians on the planet have you?

News flash: investing in being a musician can be expensive. And then it's hard to make a living at. And I'm talking about being an instrumentalist who actually works. Not a guy fucking around with beats in his underwear. Yes it's tough but all of the pros I know and work with invest in good tools for their craft.
Is your head so out there filled with free market glee that you really think $400 is what most new muscians of the world are able to pay for recording software? Again musicians of the WORLD not your world but the real world.

Are you such a pigheaded capitalist to believe that if some one does not pay top dollar for their gear they either are "sitting around in their underwear" or are not a real musicians.. Either you believe that or are talking shit to the millions of people who cant afford to pay top dollar for their gear.
Would you talk this elitist shit to your favorite musicians because (heres a news flash for you) the odds are they where poor when they started and only could afford the low end but some how they managed to put their pants on and still play.

njh
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by njh » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:49 pm

shadx312 wrote:Tapper stop bragging that you care about your work and are good at it, you sound like an insensitive prick. :lol:

3rd world kids crying about 1st world problems? That's new.
If a 3rd world kid has access to a DAW then they probably get to use it for free because they're lucky enough to have some organization teaching it to them.
I wouldnt call being in a 3rd world country nor being to poor to be able to afford a computer luck. In fact its the opposite of luck. Its called being victimized by the rich in "1st world countries"

DO you really think it would be luck to have to walk through all types of filth out side of your house just to use a stupid fucking daw?
What of luck is that.
Your head is so up your own ass and capitalism's that its become obvious you have delusions of the reality's of poverty.

102455
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by 102455 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:52 pm

Who elected you spokesperson for "most musicians"?

Musicians are not all poor. Neither are they all rich. They come from all sorts of backgrounds. You can't put "most musicians" into one cupboard marked Can't Afford $400.

Are your "most musicians" collective all unemployed? Do they not earn money from a day job, or perhaps playing gigs? For working people $400 is not a lot of money.

puzzlefactory
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by puzzlefactory » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:56 pm

njh wrote:
Is your head so out there filled with free market glee that you really think $400 is what most new muscians of the world are able to pay for recording software?
Yes. People are already buying Live, Cubase, Reason, Pro-Tools, Maschine, Komplete, Fabfilter etc etc.

At the end of the day if you can't afford it, you show a bit of dedication and save up for it.

njh
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by njh » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:00 pm

Nokatus wrote: Tough luck getting Live either, then :P. As Bitwig also runs on Linux, hopefully you can appreciate that the "high starting cost" of $400 means that the hypothetical customers you speak of can indeed install a free OS even if they'd like to use a DAW of this particular paradigm. Before this, they would have needed to pay (more) for Live, and on top of that, purchase a commercial OS.

Im only responding to this because everything else you said seemed incoherent and I probably already responded to it in another post.

Tough luck is a real snobbish thing to say to some one. Its like telling a kid "you wanted to go to college well, you have bad luck so you are stuck here mining coal".

Its not tough luck getting live because live offers live intro for 99 and you can find it on the internet for $50.
These are both semi reasonable prices for musicians.

As of Bitwig running on linux and then charging $400 is just a slap in the face to the open source comunity.
They had to use open code to write bigwig but are they going to make the source freely available? Can I alter bitwig and then sell it as my own (you are able to do this with free software)
What bitwig did was use the community for their own capitalist greed. So fuck them. And who cares if you can run bitwig on Ubuntu its the most intrusive flavor of linux out there.

regretfullySaid
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:06 pm

I wouldnt call being in a 3rd world country nor being to poor to be able to afford a computer luck. In fact its the opposite of luck. Its called being victimized by the rich in "1st world countries"
Did I say computer? No, I said DAW.
My head is hardly up capitalism's ass. It is however in the realm of reality.

And life must just be so terrible that the worst thing you have to worry about is that you have filth outside of your house and you have to walk to use a DAW.
Please miss the point some more.
ImageImage

Angstrom
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by Angstrom » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:11 pm

Image

Getcher popcorn, getcher popcorn here. Only $499 a bag,
20% off if you start crying a little bit.

Roasted nuts, roasted nuts all twisted up in a bag. €899
Last edited by Angstrom on Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

njh
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by njh » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:12 pm

puzzlefactory wrote:
njh wrote:
Is your head so out there filled with free market glee that you really think $400 is what most new muscians of the world are able to pay for recording software?
Yes. People are already buying Live, Cubase, Reason, Pro-Tools, Maschine, Komplete, Fabfilter etc etc.

At the end of the day if you can't afford it, you show a bit of dedication and save up for it.
Seriously you missed every point I hit on.

What is with all these old time fucking sayings "at the end of the day" "news flash"

Are you people my Grandfather? It seriously seems like you guys are living in a different era.

I (as in me the person who is writing this) Understand that I (again myself) can save up or buy bitwig but most musicians (on a world scale) can not save up. I personally wont buy it because I think they over priced it.
Also we are talking about software!!!!!
We live in a world where the price of software in every other area besides audio is going down.
Look at the app store! Software above $199.99 is not the norm! Since it is not the norm for software to cost so much we can see that the only reason for a company to charge above $199.99 is they are hoping to make a huge fucking profit! They could make the same profit at $199.00 buy opening up the door to people who cant afford nor justify $449.

If you people cant understand that then your must be living world where money isnt an issue or you like to pretend that it isnt an issue so you wont seem poor.
Last edited by njh on Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

regretfullySaid
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:20 pm

Software doesn't write itself, you young lil whippersnapper, people do. If you have some secret as how to work for free but still be able to live in a capitalist system then please share your secret.

It must just be coincidence that more complex apps written by more people are priced higher. And also apps written for a closed system are cheaper than ones that are not.

How is it you waste your time on here when your MBA could be used to save the children?
ImageImage

njh
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by njh » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:21 pm

Angstrom wrote:Image

Getcher popcorn, getcher popcorn here. Only $499 a bag,
20% off if you start crying a little bit.

Roasted nuts, roasted nuts all twisted up in a bag. €899
Yes, I realize this is a patronizing comical bit I do get humor.
The majority is always right unless you are a sadomasochist for scorn.

Nokatus
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by Nokatus » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:22 pm

njh wrote:Im only responding to this because everything else you said seemed incoherent and I probably already responded to it in another post.
Seemed to you, but wasn't. *Rimshot*
njh wrote:Tough luck is a real snobbish thing to say to some one. Its like telling a kid "you wanted to go to college well, you have bad luck so you are stuck here mining coal".
I merely echoed back your own viewpoint, plastering it on Live instead of Bitwig. They're both evil, I tells ya.
njh wrote:Its not tough luck getting live because live offers live intro for 99 and you can find it on the internet for $50.
These are both semi reasonable prices for musicians.
And then you're already talking about different levels of software. Again, your "semi reasonable price for musicians" is a humorous sentiment because you conveniently forget one also needs the computer to run the software on, and usually the (commercial) OS as well. If it's realistic to scrape together a sum for a reasonable second hand computer with an up to date operating system, perhaps even an audio interface and a controller, not to mention (just maybe) an acoustic instrument to record into the damn thing, with a microphone (of sorts)... then it's surely possible to do the same with the DAW software. I assume Bitwig allows for license transfers down the road. With B, at least you don't have to pay for the OS.
njh wrote:What is with all these old time fucking sayings "at the end of the day" "news flash"
Are you people my Grandfather? It seriously seems like you guys are living in a different era.
Haha :D, well I speak a handful of languages and English isn't the first one. I notice picking up more dated sayings than in my native language, even though I do recognize them as such and could avoid it (yeah, commented even if this wasn't targeted at me).
njh wrote:As of Bitwig running on linux and then charging $400 is just a slap in the face to the open source comunity.
They had to use open code to write bigwig but are they going to make the source freely available? Can I alter bitwig and then sell it as my own (you are able to do this with free software)
What bitwig did was use the community for their own capitalist greed. So fuck them. And who cares if you can run bitwig on Ubuntu its the most intrusive flavor of linux out there.
:lol:

Ohh man. Yep, we conclude, Live and Bitwig are evil. But yes, trolling you are. Not getting sucked into this further. Have a good one.

puzzlefactory
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by puzzlefactory » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:24 pm

I really don't understand which demographic of musician you've decided to be spokesperson for, but if you're talking about the third world population then I'm pretty sure the couldn't give two fucks about the price of Bitwig as they probably have more pressing matters to attend to.

Angstrom
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by Angstrom » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:26 pm

Ableton Live 9 standard : £339 / €388
Ableton Live 9 suite : £522 / €635
Bitwig studio: £249 / €299

It's an outrage , a positive outrage!!
that they are only 100 gbp / 120 € cheaper than Ableton Live standard !

How dare they only be that much cheaper!!!

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