Bitwig 1.0

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
njh
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:58 am

Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by njh » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:35 pm

H20nly wrote:you couldn't change anyone's mind so you changed screen names. interesting technique.
I accidentally logged in with the other one. Go spray some more paint up your nose strong man.

TomViolenz
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:38 pm

njh wrote:
puzzlefactory wrote:
njh wrote:
No thats not the bottom line and you missed my point.

Bitwig is targeting people who historically are poor. They are marketing this to musicians and bedroom producers.
How many rock stars are there that you know of who started out rich?
Lately how many new edm stars have been outed as using cracked software? Why do you think they used cracked software.. because they could not afford the software because they were poor musicians.

Right now there is only a couple of daws that are NOT targeted towards musicians. Those daws are marketed for mastering houses.
Can you even name one full featured daw that doesn't tell a musician how easy it is to hook their guitar or keyboard to tier software? They wouldn't bother telling a musician how easy it is if they did not want them to buy it.

I'm sorry, but who exactly are these poverty stricken computer musicians you've taken it upon yourself to represent? People apparently too poor to save up €300 but whose primary concern in life is to make dance music on thier laptop?
Do you know anything about the world? Do you not know that people of latin America have computers? Did it not occur to you that people of latin America also like to make music? DO you think most of them are buying software.. Fuck no thier not because they cant afford it. $400 is not reasonable to them at all.
But its not just people in latin America here in America where I live outside of Detroit also cant afford $400.00 for software. Here people are students or working and saving their money to get the fuck out. They do make enough money to buy shit they want but the average musician here is not going to waste $400.00 on software when there computer is only worth that much.
But seriously how is that Bitwigs fault?

Do you really think that the calculation they made for the introduction includes a huge profit?
I'm as anti-capitalism, as few, but with small software companies, that compete in a market with a healthy, but fierce competition, the free market for once actually works.
You can believe that they took a huge risk in spending so many years and programmer man hours in this, that this price is probably barely break even.
And if they are anything like Ableton, then even your Latin American friends don't have to worry, they will be able to use the unlimited demo ;-)
I know directly from a guy that worked at Ableton, that they are not fiercly trying to prevent people doing that in these countries. So chill, they are doing what they can, to adress this unfair world, while staying in business and providing us all with awesome software. Give 'em a break, will ya?!

regretfullySaid
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:38 pm

Image
ImageImage

TomViolenz
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:41 pm

njh wrote:
stringtapper wrote:
nathannn wrote: :lol:
These are the only post im finding even remotely funny or clever.
Yes because humor and wit are the only motivations behind all of the posts in this thread.

:roll:
Im sorry I forgot it should all be able murder. :lol:
And what are you insinuating my motivation is?
Do you think I have a hidden agenda?
I would guess you're drunk?!

njh
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:58 am

Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by njh » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:50 pm

TomViolenz wrote: But seriously how is that Bitwigs fault?

Do you really think that the calculation they made for the introduction includes a huge profit?
I'm as anti-capitalism, as few, but with small software companies, that compete in a market with a healthy, but fierce competition, the free market for once actually works.
You can believe that they took a huge risk in spending so many years and programmer man hours in this, that this price is probably barely break even.
And if they are anything like Ableton, then even your Latin American friends don't have to worry, they will be able to use the unlimited demo ;-)
I know directly from a guy that worked at Ableton, that they are not fiercly trying to prevent people doing that in these countries. So chill, they are doing what they can, to adress this unfair world, while staying in business and providing us all with awesome software. Give 'em a break, will ya?!
A few post ago you asked about politics being banned and now you come back with this.

What are you talking about when you say "the the calculation they made for the introduction"
Im going to guess you mean do you think the price they came up with was to make a huge profit.. My answer to that is yes, I feel that they came up with the largest price they could right on the threshold of risking no one buying. I dont really care what is healthy for the free market because I think the free market is rig that causes monopolies. I care what is best for humans not the free market.
You are surmising just as much as anyone else when you say that Bitwig will probably just break even. The truth is bitwig had investors and investors spend their careers investing and massaging capital. I dont really care about investors unless they are investing in a co-op.

Dont tell me to chill like you are more chill than me and you have the authority to comment on my chillness. Im in Michigan its 2 degrees out right now. Im pretty fucking chill.

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:01 pm

njh wrote:
TomViolenz wrote: But seriously how is that Bitwigs fault?

Do you really think that the calculation they made for the introduction includes a huge profit?
I'm as anti-capitalism, as few, but with small software companies, that compete in a market with a healthy, but fierce competition, the free market for once actually works.
You can believe that they took a huge risk in spending so many years and programmer man hours in this, that this price is probably barely break even.
And if they are anything like Ableton, then even your Latin American friends don't have to worry, they will be able to use the unlimited demo ;-)
I know directly from a guy that worked at Ableton, that they are not fiercly trying to prevent people doing that in these countries. So chill, they are doing what they can, to adress this unfair world, while staying in business and providing us all with awesome software. Give 'em a break, will ya?!
A few post ago you asked about politics being banned and now you come back with this.

What are you talking about when you say "the the calculation they made for the introduction"
Im going to guess you mean do you think price they came up with was to make a huge profit.. My answer to that is yes I feel thought about the largest price right on the threshold of risking no one buying. I dont really care what is healthy for the free market because I think the free market is rig that causes monopolies. I care what is best for humans not the free market.
You are surmising just as much as anyone else when you say that Bitwig will probably just break even. The truth is bitwig had investors and investors spend their careers investing and massaging capital. I dont really care about investors unless they are investing in a co-op.

Dont tell me to chill like you are more chill than me and you have the authority to comment on my chillness. Im in Michigan its 2 degrees out right now. Im pretty fucking chill.
I mentioned the ban of politic discussions in the Lounge, because I don't like it, and was taking a dig at the forum operators.

And you are using such a broad brush when you lump in investing in a small company like Bitwig, with big hedge fonds and the like massaging theit ill gotten gains, that your whole point becomes meaningless.

Bitwig is quite a small company at this point, so I'm sure the investors we are speaking of are probably the local bank, former colleagues and their own saved up money they earned while working for Ableton. And you are using the term investor like it is an insult and all investment is bad. This sort of dogmatic thinking was what left the East German economy in '89 in shambles, and the whole nice concept of socialism with it.

And seriously: "Don't tell me to chill!"?! Are we in a bar fight or something...pft :roll:

Airyck
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by Airyck » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:04 pm

njh wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
Airyck wrote:
I grew up in a trailer court on welfare with cock roaches (I'm not looking for pity, or trying to say I'm better for any reason). The truth is that if you want something bad enough you'll find a way to make it happen. In my case I found that when you make positive choices the ripple through everything else in your life you you get way more than you expected.
Cock roaches 8O
Man, I feel for you :mrgreen:
Ah that's a lot of bullshit.
This reminds me of the book the secret where if you believe in the secret enough and never think negative good shit will happen.
If people didn't thing negative NOTHING would happen.
If some one dint get tired of walking the car wouldn't have been invented. If a person dint think negatively about math calculators would have never been invented. Everything comes from both negative and positive thought. You cant just decide to think positive and all expect things to fall into your lap.
Btw you are a hypocrite because you must have thought negatively about some one else's response in order to post that response about going full on positive.
Doooood! I didn't say anything about having positive thoughts and that those will change everything (though I do believe they help but no in some magical way). Of course I have negative thoughts but I control my emotions (while still listening to them) and make choices based on both, I believe in balance. The entire human existence and perception is based on dichotomy. You can't have happiness without sadness, you can't have life without death. I'm no "think nothing but happy thoughts kind of hippy dude". I'm glad there are bad things in life, I'm happy there is death, because without those you couldn't have the opposite.

You are twisting my words, I said when you "make positive choices" and I mean ones that are positive for you, that they will effect many other things in your life in a positive way as well. For example: for me: my positive choice was to go to school and work hard so that I could afford music equipment. The side effect of that is that now I also am able to live better and it has set me up with a job that will pay for me to go further in that area.

So please don't just assume, I'm no all positive or all negative hippy or goth. The happy all positive hippies piss me off just as much as the negative people because they are not being realistic, in either of those extremes.
http://www.soundcloud.com/airyck-sterrett
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 7 & 8 /
2016 Macbook Pro 15"
Too much hardware to list

Airyck
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by Airyck » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:04 pm

double post
http://www.soundcloud.com/airyck-sterrett
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 7 & 8 /
2016 Macbook Pro 15"
Too much hardware to list

njh
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:58 am

Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by njh » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:27 pm

Airyck wrote:
Doooood! I didn't say anything about having positive thoughts and that those will change everything (though I do believe they help but no in some magical way). Of course I have negative thoughts but I control my emotions (while still listening to them) and make choices based on both, I believe in balance. The entire human existence and perception is based on dichotomy. You can't have happiness without sadness, you can't have life without death. I'm no "think nothing but happy thoughts kind of hippy dude". I'm glad there are bad things in life, I'm happy there is death, because without those you couldn't have the opposite.

You are twisting my words, I said when you "make positive choices" and I mean ones that are positive for you, that they will effect many other things in your life in a positive way as well. For example: for me: my positive choice was to go to school and work hard so that I could afford music equipment. The side effect of that is that now I also am able to live better and it has set me up with a job that will pay for me to go further in that area.

So please don't just assume, I'm no all positive or all negative hippy or goth. The happy all positive hippies piss me off just as much as the negative people because they are not being realistic, in either of those extremes.
Yeah I can see how I took you wrong, sorry about that.
I agree with you though except in some cases there are people in this world who cant afford to go to school, some might not have transportation and a school might not even exist. I dont think these people should have to suffer just because they don't have a western education. Im against a lot of educational policy's within my country but that's another discussion.
Im convinced that there is enough money in the world for everyone to be able to have housing,food,shelter,clothing,transportation along with a computer and access to the internet. All these things are necessary in today's world and we all would have them if it was not for the greed of a few and the backwards brainwashed thinking of many.

H20nly
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by H20nly » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:35 pm

this is a lot to go through because you decided to attack leisuremuffin for saying that he would buy some software.

what happened to you to make you so angry?

it's a shame. really.

stringtapper
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by stringtapper » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:36 pm

^ But all of that stuff is so far removed from the price of music software and how it relates to people who want to make music.

Music isn't the same as food and other necessities. I "need" music personally but I've done what I have to do to get the tools I need to make it. No one inherently deserves to make music. And besides those who want to make music will find a way with or without a computer.
Unsound Designer

H20nly
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by H20nly » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

very true.

i've been wanting a new bass for a long time... :( but i can't afford one. so i'll keep using the one i have. it still makes music.

H20nly
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by H20nly » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:51 pm

so, now that the thread has gone from Bitwig to WigOut is there anything more about Bitwig today? i'm still curious about this software.

when do the beta testers get un-gagged?

Airyck
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by Airyck » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:56 pm

njh wrote:
Yeah I can see how I took you wrong, sorry about that.
I agree with you though except in some cases there are people in this world who cant afford to go to school, some might not have transportation and a school might not even exist. I dont think these people should have to suffer just because they don't have a western education. Im against a lot of educational policy's within my country but that's another discussion.
Im convinced that there is enough money in the world for everyone to be able to have housing,food,shelter,clothing,transportation along with a computer and access to the internet. All these things are necessary in today's world and we all would have them if it was not for the greed of a few and the backwards brainwashed thinking of many.
No need for an apology, words are easily misinterpreted and not perfect way to communicate what you really mean.
I know not everyone has the same opportunities in the world and I really wish they did. It's even worse when you have clear visibility of those that got a better start and how far they have been able to go so quickly because of it, while you sit in a position that in every rational perspective of it makes it look unreachable. It's not fair in any way, it can really piss you off (it does piss me off to this day), so much that it consumes you. You don't even see a reason to try because it's impossible. Okay so now you have the attitude "fuck it" whats the point of even trying. On that same note though "fuck it" whats the point of not trying?

If it doesn't matter you could just accept it and deal with it as is (which in some cases might be the best choice). But for the most part why not give it some effort and just see what happens, it's really the only choice that the outcome is uncertain. I'm sure you have an image of what you'd like your life to be like. When it's clear, burn it in your brain and never forget it. Keep it in mind at all times and every waking moment do anything you can that will help you to move toward that, persist, don't ever stop.

Truth be told, I don't like the majority of ways people run businesses, not completely anyway (F you AKAI). So if you can't stand it, then do what you need to put yourself in a place that will allow you to do it how 'you' think it should be done.

One of the things I'm working for is to design my own music instruments in my own way that incorporate everything that I think is missing in today's stuff. It's one of a few interrelated things that I'm constantly working toward and it 'will' happen or I'll die trying.

I feel for you dude, I have some experience of getting a shitty start too (not the same as you obviously) but I get it. Don't let it get you all angry, the further you have to go, the more rewarding it will be when you arrive.

Alright enough of this shit, seriously though, say what you want about me but I really am trying to help. (no on purpose judgments at all)

Cheers,
~Airyck~
http://www.soundcloud.com/airyck-sterrett
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 7 & 8 /
2016 Macbook Pro 15"
Too much hardware to list

re:dream
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Re: Bitwig 1.0

Post by re:dream » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:05 pm

*peeks into thread*

8O

Yikes, what happened here? You'd think we were discussing de-clawing cats.

Shall we ask Ableton_David to ban discussions of electronic music software?

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