Experimental routing

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
downbeat8
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Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:55 pm

Experimental routing

Post by downbeat8 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:57 pm

I know how to side chain compression. that's great. how can I take this kind of routing further? Like is there a way to have the panning of one track affect the frequency of EQ on another track? things like that? Experimental linking of effects?

Thanks!

silversurfer60
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:23 pm

Re: Experimental routing

Post by silversurfer60 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:15 pm

You can use the autofilter for sidechaning as well. Put the autofilter on a track with an synthesizer, that plays chords and process the hi frequencies of this chords with your hihats from your drumtrack over the autofilter. The kick would be to slow, so use something faster like hihats or percussion. The result is quite interesting.

downbeat8
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Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:55 pm

Re: Experimental routing

Post by downbeat8 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:58 pm

Thanks. Yes that's cool! What about linking effects that don't have the side chain option? any workarounds. how would you set something up so like the volume control on one track has an inverse effect the dry/wet level of another track? know what I mean? A million years ago I used to use motion-math in Adobe After Effects and you could write simple if this, then that stuff so like the scale of one object would effect the hue of another. always wanted to experiment like that with audio. can't you do some creative routing like that in Reason?

thanks

Galt
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: Experimental routing

Post by Galt » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:11 pm

Max for Live allows you to SC anything. Even things that don't want to be SCed. Just remember that you're the one who has to live with yourself.

xmonsta
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Experimental routing

Post by xmonsta » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:57 pm

Hey downbeat,

If you have live 9 with maxforlive included then this should do what you want.

http://www.xmonsta.com/product/multi-map-observer/ (requires sign up at the top)

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This allows you to observe any currently automated/moved parameter and then move other parameters based on that.

Hope it helps.
Last edited by xmonsta on Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.xmonsta.com Music devices and controllers for Ableton Live

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andydes
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Location: Bremen

Re: Experimental routing

Post by andydes » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:37 pm

downbeat8 wrote:Thanks. Yes that's cool! What about linking effects that don't have the side chain option? any workarounds. how would you set something up so like the volume control on one track has an inverse effect the dry/wet level of another track? know what I mean? A million years ago I used to use motion-math in Adobe After Effects and you could write simple if this, then that stuff so like the scale of one object would effect the hue of another. always wanted to experiment like that with audio. can't you do some creative routing like that in Reason?

thanks
You could use racks to set up a wet chain and a dry chain and add side chaining effects to each separately. Not quite the same, but you can do interesting things that way.

Or of course, have different chains to different eq bands, or left and right panning. etc.

Also, don't forget clip envelopes to automate stuff as well as side chaining.

downbeat8
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:55 pm

Re: Experimental routing

Post by downbeat8 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:13 pm

thanks everybody. the funny thing about experimenting is most of the time it doesn't sound great. but the process is so much fun! and when you hit something new and unexpected it's worth it

Galt
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Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: Experimental routing

Post by Galt » Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:32 pm

I'd also suggest you use multiband dynamics to isolate specific bands and create custom multiband effects. Try creating a multiband frequency shifter. It is WICKED.

Khazul
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Location: Reading, UK

Re: Experimental routing

Post by Khazul » Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:40 pm

And the gate in flip mode for pumping (alternative to the compressor). Side chaining the gate with a rhythm loop/drum track - gated synths, gating loops with too much effects. Gating random long sounds or vocals etc can be good, or gating the feed to a delay, reverb etc.

Another common use for side chain is ducking effects returns - so that the effect level can be very high without swamping the original sound - have the compressor side chain from pre-fx on the same return, stick the compressor at the end of the return chain.

Many fabfilter plugins support sidechain as well (volcano, timeless, saturn, pro-mb, pro-g, pro-c) allowing some interesting wierd stuff to be done.
Nothing to see here - move along!

downbeat8
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:55 pm

Re: Experimental routing

Post by downbeat8 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:21 am

bump for any new ideas m4l or otherwise thanks

swishniak
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Location: Berlin

Re: Experimental routing

Post by swishniak » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:27 am

check out LFOs in M4L if you havent already. Robert Henke made a really useful simple LFO device that you can assign to any parameter... oh and the Multimap device allows you to assign a controller signal to a bunch of different devices on different channels.. very fun - almost as good as having a big modular synth.

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Experimental routing

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:55 pm

downbeat8 wrote:Thanks. Yes that's cool! What about linking effects that don't have the side chain option? any workarounds. how would you set something up so like the volume control on one track has an inverse effect the dry/wet level of another track? know what I mean? A million years ago I used to use motion-math in Adobe After Effects and you could write simple if this, then that stuff so like the scale of one object would effect the hue of another. always wanted to experiment like that with audio. can't you do some creative routing like that in Reason?

thanks
Take a look at Macrobat deliverd together with the installation of clyphx.

There you have a rack called nk sidechain. You could probably use that.

TomViolenz
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Experimental routing

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:57 pm

swishniak wrote:check out LFOs in M4L if you havent already. Robert Henke made a really useful simple LFO device that you can assign to any parameter... oh and the Multimap device allows you to assign a controller signal to a bunch of different devices on different channels.. very fun - almost as good as having a big modular synth.
Just note that you will lose any control over that parameter once you assigned it to the LFO.

For me that invariably means I'll opt for some other solution than that M4L LFO.

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Experimental routing

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:13 pm

downbeat8 wrote:I know how to side chain compression. that's great. how can I take this kind of routing further? Like is there a way to have the panning of one track affect the frequency of EQ on another track? things like that? Experimental linking of effects?
You are aware of "dummy clips", or in this case I'd rather call them "audio automation-only clips" running in a buss track?

Basically you set up the buss track as usual, leading the tracks you want into the buss, add the effects you want to affect the bussed audio with and make clips that automate these. Then you can play and/or record or place these where you want them in your arrangement.

Personally I think there are too little of built-in possibilities to affect one track from other tracks in Live. I'm going to investigate the M4L possibilities.
Make some music!

yur2die4
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Re: Experimental routing

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:29 pm

Sometimes I'll put a gate on a return channel, either with or without an EQ (this would then aim for specific frequencies), and what I'll have it do is, if s sound gets loud enough, the effect after (maybe a reverb or delay) starts being applied.

So if for instance a person is singing casually, the effect might never come on, or only apply at specific points where there is a short syllable of emphasis.

Or during a whole section they can sing more loudly, and the effect kicks in.

I think M4L does have an envelope follower also. I was considering using that to modulate the Envelope +/- for a filter in an arpeggiated synth :P once again, as a person changes dynamic, the autonomous synth would then kind of have an emotional interaction haha

Some classic routing techniques are like, putting grain delay into a return channel. You can either have things Repitch exponentially with the feedback or have a very minuscule amount of pitch change to cause a nice long bend.

Edit: also, if I recall, you can map filters/EQs to a key range, let's say an octave. And set the min and max to specific note frequencies. It isn't that exciting though. This only works with non-linear parameters. And I'm trying to remember if I was imagining this or not.

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