Note off issue with hardware instruments

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Lunatic_77
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by Lunatic_77 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:45 pm

The following problem in Ableton live drives me mad:

Midi Notes get stuck when playing back (only when using 2 or more previously recorded midi tracks). Each instrument has it's own Midi I/O channel on the Motu Midi Timepieces i have. Also all midi tracks in Live are only connected to their corresponding inputs (not all Midi Ins). The notes do not get stuck when playing the midi clips in solo mode.

I am using external instruments (E-mu E II+, Emax SE, Dynacord ADD-one, Moog SP, Roland Juno 106, OB Matrix 6R) and my Midi interface is a Motu Timepiece AV USB. Ableton is 64bit.

Most of the time i use the SP-12 as master and sync Ableton to it.

Only happens in Ableton Live 9 (Reaper & Cubase work fine) but i'd like to make the switch to Ableton... :/

Any ideas?
E-mu E II, Emax, SP-12 / Esi 32, Dynacord ADD-one + ADD-drive, Moog SP, Roland Juno 106, OB Matrix 6R, Simmons Clap Trap, OTO, Electro Harmonix Vocoder

Asus P6T WS, Intel 930 2.8GHz, 12 GB RAM, 2x RME MF II, Frontier Alphatrack, MOTU TP, TPAV USB

penguinpajamas
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:43 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by penguinpajamas » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:42 am

Have you tried shortening the midi notes so they're just barely finishing before the end of the clip or loop? If the midi notes extend beyond the looping region they won't be sending a note off signal.
Last edited by penguinpajamas on Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lunatic_77
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by Lunatic_77 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:28 am

Thanks for the reply. Anyways, the notes are all within the clip...
E-mu E II, Emax, SP-12 / Esi 32, Dynacord ADD-one + ADD-drive, Moog SP, Roland Juno 106, OB Matrix 6R, Simmons Clap Trap, OTO, Electro Harmonix Vocoder

Asus P6T WS, Intel 930 2.8GHz, 12 GB RAM, 2x RME MF II, Frontier Alphatrack, MOTU TP, TPAV USB

Lunatic_77
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by Lunatic_77 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:51 pm

And it's getting worse 8O

Now i get stuck notes when only playing one clip, notes that do not even exist... :|
E-mu E II, Emax, SP-12 / Esi 32, Dynacord ADD-one + ADD-drive, Moog SP, Roland Juno 106, OB Matrix 6R, Simmons Clap Trap, OTO, Electro Harmonix Vocoder

Asus P6T WS, Intel 930 2.8GHz, 12 GB RAM, 2x RME MF II, Frontier Alphatrack, MOTU TP, TPAV USB

doghouse
Posts: 1413
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by doghouse » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:54 pm

Can you patch in a MIDI monitor program and verify the actual MIDI messages being sent by Live and then again out of your interface? Until you're sure where the note offs are being dropped you're pissing in the wind.

Lunatic_77
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by Lunatic_77 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:01 pm

doghouse wrote:Can you patch in a MIDI monitor program and verify the actual MIDI messages being sent by Live and then again out of your interface? Until you're sure where the note offs are being dropped you're pissing in the wind.
Cheers for the hint, I'll do that and report back!
E-mu E II, Emax, SP-12 / Esi 32, Dynacord ADD-one + ADD-drive, Moog SP, Roland Juno 106, OB Matrix 6R, Simmons Clap Trap, OTO, Electro Harmonix Vocoder

Asus P6T WS, Intel 930 2.8GHz, 12 GB RAM, 2x RME MF II, Frontier Alphatrack, MOTU TP, TPAV USB

Lunatic_77
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by Lunatic_77 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:22 pm

What I can confirm by now is that this only happens with Ableton Live. Tested with Reaper and several midi tracks, all fine. A single clip will play fine, the problem starts, when launching another clip. The problem will occur with either SP-12 or Ableton as master. I tried reinstalling Ableton, reinstalling the Moto drivers, deactivating my RME Multifaces, no change :/
E-mu E II, Emax, SP-12 / Esi 32, Dynacord ADD-one + ADD-drive, Moog SP, Roland Juno 106, OB Matrix 6R, Simmons Clap Trap, OTO, Electro Harmonix Vocoder

Asus P6T WS, Intel 930 2.8GHz, 12 GB RAM, 2x RME MF II, Frontier Alphatrack, MOTU TP, TPAV USB

re:dream
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Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by re:dream » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:54 pm

What does the MIDI monitor say?

Lunatic_77
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by Lunatic_77 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:37 pm

I don't have internet in the studio, so i still need to download and install that. As it only occurs with Ableton and only from when i start the second clip, i think it is obvious that this is caused by Ableton though.
E-mu E II, Emax, SP-12 / Esi 32, Dynacord ADD-one + ADD-drive, Moog SP, Roland Juno 106, OB Matrix 6R, Simmons Clap Trap, OTO, Electro Harmonix Vocoder

Asus P6T WS, Intel 930 2.8GHz, 12 GB RAM, 2x RME MF II, Frontier Alphatrack, MOTU TP, TPAV USB

manasseh
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:15 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by manasseh » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:58 pm

I've had this problem with the motif rack as well (play mid clip onto to motif, through midi out)
Live 10.1b13
Windows 10 build 1809
RME Babyface Pro

Lunatic_77
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by Lunatic_77 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:05 pm

manasseh wrote:I've had this problem with the motif rack as well (play mid clip onto to motif, through midi out)
and how did you solve it? ;)
E-mu E II, Emax, SP-12 / Esi 32, Dynacord ADD-one + ADD-drive, Moog SP, Roland Juno 106, OB Matrix 6R, Simmons Clap Trap, OTO, Electro Harmonix Vocoder

Asus P6T WS, Intel 930 2.8GHz, 12 GB RAM, 2x RME MF II, Frontier Alphatrack, MOTU TP, TPAV USB

manasseh
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:15 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by manasseh » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:40 pm

I didn't. I filed a bug report at the time, during live 9 beta phase, in getsatisfaction forum .
I was using a lended motif rack for a live project and remember encountering that problem (march 2012), fortunatly never needed it anymore.
Live 10.1b13
Windows 10 build 1809
RME Babyface Pro

Lunatic_77
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by Lunatic_77 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:15 pm

Ok so, apparently Midiox shows nothing. However i did a fresh install on a spare disk. Win 7, Ableton, Midi drivers, nothing else. The problem persists. So i can definitely say it is either Ableton or the MOTU driver. As it works with Reaper, i am still suggesting it's a problem with Ableton...
E-mu E II, Emax, SP-12 / Esi 32, Dynacord ADD-one + ADD-drive, Moog SP, Roland Juno 106, OB Matrix 6R, Simmons Clap Trap, OTO, Electro Harmonix Vocoder

Asus P6T WS, Intel 930 2.8GHz, 12 GB RAM, 2x RME MF II, Frontier Alphatrack, MOTU TP, TPAV USB

doghouse
Posts: 1413
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by doghouse » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:16 am

Lunatic_77 wrote:Ok so, apparently Midiox shows nothing.
So you can see the note off messages in MIDI-OX?

Or did you mean you do not see the note offs?

Lunatic_77
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Note off issue with hardware instruments

Post by Lunatic_77 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:07 pm

there is nothing shown in Midi Ox if Ableton is playing... :/ I tried with a fresh system (new HDD) with only RME / Motu Drivers & Ableton installed, still the same.
E-mu E II, Emax, SP-12 / Esi 32, Dynacord ADD-one + ADD-drive, Moog SP, Roland Juno 106, OB Matrix 6R, Simmons Clap Trap, OTO, Electro Harmonix Vocoder

Asus P6T WS, Intel 930 2.8GHz, 12 GB RAM, 2x RME MF II, Frontier Alphatrack, MOTU TP, TPAV USB

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