Is this The end of Humanity

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Tue May 24, 2005 2:48 am

Former Pharaoh wrote:Uh, it is this consciousness that i am referring to when i speak of the electrical current in our body system. Without it, we cannot function. What is the difference between a dead person and a live one? They both have all the physical aspects intact except a dead person does not have Spirit, or consciousness...or what I call electricity.
Whether a body is in a vegetative state or not is irrelevant.
It is pretty obvious that you don't have a PhD in Neurobiology.

Former Pharaoh
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Post by Former Pharaoh » Tue May 24, 2005 3:14 am

It is pretty obvious that you don't have a PhD in Neurobiology.
..and point being?

anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Tue May 24, 2005 3:32 am

Former Pharaoh wrote:
It is pretty obvious that you don't have a PhD in Neurobiology.
..and point being?
that I'm just having a laugh :lol:

i'm not quite up to speed on the finer detail of the neocortex, sensory transduction, and sensorimotor integration either.

MrSleep
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Post by MrSleep » Tue May 24, 2005 3:50 am

Has anyone here seen "Dark City"?
hurry up.... mr squigle....

MrYellow
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Post by MrYellow » Tue May 24, 2005 3:51 am

Ok if a whole "soul" is too much of a paradigm shift.....
Try this for a smaller step....

Memory upgrades....

Database lookup devices with thought implanting for data retrieval.

Much much easier then downloading a brain...... but if you can see that
being possible.... then you have to know that much more is also.

Already we have prosthetic limbs that react to nurve impulse to move.
There are basic prosthetic eyes that feed signals into the optic nurve. There
are many things which have been or are being developed which allow
sensory information to be inserted somewhat directly into the brain.

As for Neurobiology, I don't have a PhD, but I have some understanding of
how it works..... Nerve cells most people understand, use electrical and
chemical signals accross the synapse. Then the next part is they link
together into macro networks which are somewhat like transistors, the
shape of the network will determine how it functions. Then they link
together into larger structures which provide some function to the "mind".

Recently there was a new scanning technology released that allows you to
track a thought through the brain in real-time. It's quite easy to see that in
50 years they will have very intimate knowledge of how thought processes
work in the physical world of nerve cells. Making it possible to map out a
persons brain simply by observing the movement of their thoughts and
impulses for a period of time.

You could then duplicate that network with "computer" parts..... and given
the right technology it could easy evolve to create new thought paths and
learn new things...... Maybe even become depressed about being dead :-)

-Ben

MrYellow
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Post by MrYellow » Tue May 24, 2005 3:54 am

oh btw...... I think the original article was just guerilla marketing for Sony.

-Ben

fall
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Post by fall » Tue May 24, 2005 8:08 am

I believe they might become able duplicate your conscienceness, but it won't be you.
Think about it. What if they "download" you into a computer, while you're still alive, then you'd exist twice? Then which one are you, the computer version or the human version? The human version of course. So after the human version dies, you don't live on as the computer version, even though it might be an exact duplicate of yourself at the time they downloaded it.
What if they copy your data in 3 such machines at the same time... You're not all of these copies at the same time, or you?

Oh yeah :
computer games are THE most useless stupid thing around.
If only they were fun.
They're not
They just kill time.
If all the developer talent going into that stuff went into some interesting dev't, we'd be miles ahead in so many ways.
Yeah well I know plenty of people who feel the same way about music software, like Ableton Live... Live and let live.
Personally I play video games for at least 2 hours a day, mainly RPG's (and particularly Final Fantasy's). It's driving my girlfriend nuts :twisted:

forge
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Post by forge » Tue May 24, 2005 8:47 am

Ah now this is my kind of topic.


Stripping it all down to the basics.

So is the electric current running through it all the YOU? the SOUL? What is it???

THe most incredible thing about life is that there are cells and organs in our body and in billions of organisms all over the earth which have no function whatsoever beyond their ONE SPECIFIC TASK. So the whole ("machine"??) together makes the calculations necessary to figure out what functions/cells/organs are needed at EVERY GIVEN MOMENT depending entirely on the environment - ie: what variables in the universe it inhabits are doing and how it should respond to them. So in other words we figure out what's going on around us and act accordingly, on a completely unconscious level most of the time.

How often do you consciously tell your liver exactly HOW it should d3eal with all the shit you've givein= it???

So somehow this buig fucking universr maede up of organic machines is ticking along and we're in our section trying to figure out what we're doing but having no idea at all of the significance and what bits we should be focusing on enjoying our nectar points and supersize cokes, all the while solving a gigantic problem like Douglas Adams 42.

The day the world dies is the day we collectively lose interest in getting out of bed in the morning. No longer will the electricity that is our souls collectively go to the collective lightswitches and change the current from off to on.

until the moment happens when we all decide to simultaneously give up on any point in getting up in the morning, then there's no need to worry about the end of the world. Unless one of the world leaders with access to nuclear bombs decides it, in which case we're all bolloxed, but they're a small percentage of the 6 billion of the rest of us so we've got about as much chance of that as winning the lottery or going under a bus.

So dont worry, be HAPPY!

anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Tue May 24, 2005 8:48 am

It is a really interesting thing to consider - if it is possible to perfectly synthesize a conscious copy of YOU? I can only imagine, as a matter of technical replication, it might work, except that the moment you hit the 'on' button on the doppelganger then the real you and the synthesized you immediately start to diverge as your experiences start being different.

The synthesized one might identify that it is synthetic, and recognise that it is housed within an android body and plunge into some sort of crisis of self-actualisation. The real you will be overwhelmed with the being faced with the existence of a copy of your consciousness that you can quiz and interact with.

From that point onwards it is like you have divided siamese twins, struggling with each others existence.

And the situation where neither your copy nor you know of the other? Well we all know there is an infinity of other planet earths, each differing only slightly from the other. And across the range of all these alternative earths, perfect copies of us exist, living everything from identical to radically different lives to ourselves, depending on the outcome of every toss of the cosmic dice. In some cases we did step out infront of that car when we were 3 years old, in others we did win the lottery, in others we caught a disease, in others ... etc. So that bizarre scenario of multiple yous already exists.
The curious thing is, which of your infinite set of possible lives are you living in? The one the wins or the one that loses?
Last edited by anonymouse on Tue May 24, 2005 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Benshik
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Post by Benshik » Tue May 24, 2005 8:51 am

How will the information we be transfered from the brain to the machine? For this, we would need a machine that can "read" the brain, "read" our thoughts, go into our memories. Right now, scientists can sense cell activity in the brain when it thinks, but there is no way to track what the thought is. Come on...

This speculation sounds very much like disguised advertising. Here we call this advertorials.
I would be curious to know what is the relationship between Sony and the futurology unit at British Telecom.


Ben

anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Tue May 24, 2005 8:58 am

Benshik wrote:How will the information we be transfered from the brain to the machine? For this, we would need a machine that can "read" the brain, "read" our thoughts, go into our memories. Right now, scientists can sense cell activity in the brain when it thinks, but there is no way to track what the thought is. Come on...

This speculation sounds very much like disguised advertising. Here we call this advertorials.
I would be curious to know what is the relationship between Sony and the futurology unit at British Telecom.


Ben
While the copy process might be beyond current science, no doubt it will eventually exist. And assuming then that this digital scan can be given "life" in a synthetic host ... that's where things get bizarre!

forge
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Post by forge » Tue May 24, 2005 8:58 am

anonymouse wrote:It is a really interesting thing to consider - if it is possible to perfectly synthesize a conscious copy of YOU? I can only imagine, as a matter of technical replication, it might work, except that the moment you hit the 'on' button on the doppelganger then the real you and the synthesized you immediately start to diverge as your experiences start being different.

The synthesized one might identify that it is synthetic, and recognise that it is housed within an android body and plunge into some sort of crisis of self-actualisation. The real you will be overwhelmed with the being faced with the existence of a copy of your consciousness that you can quiz and interact with.

From that point onwards it is like you have divided siamese twins, struggling with each others existence.

And the situation where neither your copy nor you know of the other? Well we all know there is an infinity of other planet earths, each differing only slightly from the other. And across the range of all these alternative earths, perfect copies of us exist, living everything from identical to radically different lives to ourselves, depending on the outcome of every toss of the cosmic dice. In some cases we did step out infront of that car when we were 3 years old, in others we did win the lottery, in others we caught a disease, in others ... etc. So that bizarre scenario of multiple yous already exists.
The curious thing is, which of your infinite set of possible lives are you living in? The one the wins or the one that loses?
I think all the self doubt and bullshit is related to the emotional pat of us - the bit that was stuck in our DNA to give us the ability to procreate by having the compassion neccessary to care for another - so if we were to duplicate ourselves we would probably omit the bits that caused all the problems and eventually live in utopia due to lack of problems.

No I'mm all for a bit of cloning if I'd have the choice of leaving out all the shit about my life I dont like.

Why Not????

anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Tue May 24, 2005 9:04 am

well apart from thinning hair, a metabolism that puts beer and steak straight onto my softening belly, a hairy back, skinny legs and propensity to sleep alot, I am the perfect human.

So being fortunate in my near perfect state, I won't need to do too much editing when I am making my perfect copy :lol:

forge
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Post by forge » Tue May 24, 2005 9:13 am

anonymouse wrote:well apart from thinning hair, a metabolism that puts beer and steak straight onto my softening belly, a hairy back, skinny legs and propensity to sleep alot, I am the perfect human.

So being fortunate in my near perfect state, I won't need to do too much editing when I am making my perfect copy :lol:
are you my brother?

apart from the skinny legs bit

Emissary
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Post by Emissary » Tue May 24, 2005 9:53 am

Hmmm, we all know sony are lying about the playstation 3's power anyway. Remeber what they said about ps2, IT WILL BE JUST LIKE JACKING INTO THE MATRIX!!. Hahahaha,

Imagine if todays kids grew up knowing that they were never going to die. How much would that hurt progress.......hmmm. I'm glad so many people got involved in this post. Its a real thinker.

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