Is this The end of Humanity

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Former Pharaoh
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Post by Former Pharaoh » Wed May 25, 2005 4:25 am

Here are some of my predictions:

1 Hilary Clinton will be the 1st female president

2 In order to maintain absolute control of the masses and gear them towards the New World Order, there will be an alien invasion hoax

3 The internet will eventually be the only means of commerce or at the very least a prerequsite towards a final process in commerce

4 The sunken ancient city of atlantis (which never sank by the way, it deliberately was built as an underwater civilization) will become common spread

5 Tupac will return from the secret island of "dead" celebrities

6 The U.S. will be split into East and West territories ala old Germany. New York will be the new empire

7 Oxygen will be distributed at a cost after a major world war

8 Animals in general will dwindle drastically for they are a distraction to a corporate owned industrial society seeking to eliminate any evidence of life outside said structure


8)

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Wed May 25, 2005 10:09 am

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.

Well, if you think of the way computers acted and looked and what they could do at the time, not many people would want a computer in their home, would they?

As for the comments on telephones, they were pretty useless at first. A far cry from even the shitty quality we get on landlines today, and they only worked over a distance of a couple of miles, as I understand.

One can always argue that these people should have shown more foresight concerning what the technology could grow into, but at the time, computers were presented as advanced electronic typewriters and calculators. Not impressive, except to the adventureous... hence: why would anyone want one in their home?

Hindsight is 20/20, mate:)

-Paws

anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Wed May 25, 2005 10:48 am

noisetonepause wrote:"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.

Well, if you think of the way computers acted and looked and what they could do at the time, not many people would want a computer in their home, would they?

As for the comments on telephones, they were pretty useless at first. A far cry from even the shitty quality we get on landlines today, and they only worked over a distance of a couple of miles, as I understand.

One can always argue that these people should have shown more foresight concerning what the technology could grow into, but at the time, computers were presented as advanced electronic typewriters and calculators. Not impressive, except to the adventureous... hence: why would anyone want one in their home?

Hindsight is 20/20, mate:)

-Paws
Definitely Paws, what looks obvious now was far from obvious then.

Though I'd suggest where the person guilty of such profound shortsightedness was a highly paid and bonused corporate executive at the time, meant to be an expert in their field ... it is forgiveable to secondguess their brilliance. Particularly if they've only gotten richer and richer over the decades, despite their once joe-average insights into the future of their field.

Poor old Arthur C Clarke, first broke the concept of geostationary satellites for global broadcasts, and never made a penny on it; while the businessmen made a killing.

forge
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Post by forge » Wed May 25, 2005 11:13 am

for anyone to be able to conclusively say "this will never happen" is kind of like saying with subtitles "because I know all there is to know and I say this is not possible"

The longer we all live together as a species, the more we are all starting to cotton on collectively that we dont know everything and there are certain things about the universe that our brains in their current evolutionary states cant comprehend. But each new generation is slightly more evolved than the last so our kids are slightly better than us and gradually we are learning more about the universe and each generation is better informed than the last. So by this reckoning it is INEVITABLE that many future technological advancements will be beyond OUR comprehension at our stage in the evolutionary cycle.

SimonPHC
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Post by SimonPHC » Wed May 25, 2005 12:21 pm

http://www.kurzweilai.net

http://transhumanism.org/index.php/th/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumanism

Ray Kurzweil - The Age of Spiritual Machines

all of this stuff is not as far fetched as it may seem.

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Wed May 25, 2005 12:37 pm

SimonPHC wrote:http://www.kurzweilai.net

http://transhumanism.org/index.php/th/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumanism

Ray Kurzweil - The Age of Spiritual Machines

all of this stuff is not as far fetched as it may seem.
Right. That book rocks and is manditory reading for people who believe artificial intelligence is bullocks.

Remember not to long ago, they introduced sound in a narrow beam.
It just plays inside your head.
That's another step closer to VR.
Then there is the law of acceleration. (pong is not that long ago in evolutionary terms)

No doubt the human brain is more powerfull then a computer.
But computers get smarter everyday.
While people get dumber or make no progress at all.

onyxashanti
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Post by onyxashanti » Wed May 25, 2005 1:39 pm

forge wrote:for anyone to be able to conclusively say "this will never happen" is kind of like saying with subtitles "because I know all there is to know and I say this is not possible"

The longer we all live together as a species, the more we are all starting to cotton on collectively that we dont know everything and there are certain things about the universe that our brains in their current evolutionary states cant comprehend. But each new generation is slightly more evolved than the last so our kids are slightly better than us and gradually we are learning more about the universe and each generation is better informed than the last. So by this reckoning it is INEVITABLE that many future technological advancements will be beyond OUR comprehension at our stage in the evolutionary cycle.
actually i think that the longer we live, as a species, we realize that we CAN do anything, we just don't realize it yet. once we start [and we will] downloading our conciousness into artificial constructs we will cease to be human. we should use it as a positive proof that our conciousness can be separated from the body and gain a higher sense of who and what we truly are and not fear death. the only way for it to be anything other than a collection of memories and habits is to advance our knowledge of spiritual [read; not religious] constructs [ie soul]. don't get me wrong, i would probably do it just to see if it worked, but i would definitely want to have an opt out button, because i think that it would be what religious people would consider to be hell; going from our present existence to existence in, effectively, a box with little cameras and screens as your only interface to the universe...sorry, that sounds like a jail cell to me. although it would be interesting for a split second i'd be will to bet that entities would have no way to self delete, couple with a lack of the rights of a "human". they'd probably just use your conciousness to run math problems. textbook hell. 100-200 years from now when the moal implications have been fought over, laws in place for the rights of a non corporeal sentient entity, and computing power is waaaaaaay more powerful than the colective of human brain power on this planet, then, yeah, it would be very cool.

if i were able to be downloaded into a cloned replica of my self, at a particular age, and free of, well, whatever i want to be free of, that would make up for being stuck in a box for a bit, but there is still a need to study what a "soul" is, in this context, for it to not just be copies of people and memories running around. or even better...

imagine a "matrix" type scenario [playstation x]where you can be downloaded into this artificial world after death or at will, AND when/if you get tired of the artificial world, you can have a cloned/desgned body, of your specification, built and be downloaded into that at a later time. all kinds of things will have to happen before this scenario is valid; lots of laws, ways to make "money"[ ways to do something of worth and be compensted] from within the "matrix" to be able to afford said designer body, ways to avoid accidental deletion [ie death] once back in the real world, etc.

very interesting topic...

onyx

claudek
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Post by claudek » Wed May 25, 2005 1:43 pm

The microchip is the silcon alien. It will take over mankind, as it already is on perfect path. We are becoming slaves to this invader and soon they will be in complete control of us.
We perhaps created the next creature to surpass mankind.
Evolution is progress.
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Mac Ibook G4 800GHz OSX 10.3.9 /Core Audio/M Audio Oxy 8
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Live 5.02

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Wed May 25, 2005 5:29 pm

ok, everyone stop smoking crack and also stop reliving threads from slashdot.

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl? ... 91&tid=126

The topic has been discussed by some pretty bright people already.

onyxashanti
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Post by onyxashanti » Wed May 25, 2005 5:42 pm

sweetjesus wrote:ok, everyone stop smoking crack and also stop reliving threads from slashdot.

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl? ... 91&tid=126

The topic has been discussed by some pretty bright people already.
well, my parents discussed politics long before i was born...doesn't mean i shouldn't and don't have to now. oh...and i think i'm reasonably clever and not in need of reading someone elses statements solely to replace my own... but thanks for the link.

onyx

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Wed May 25, 2005 5:54 pm

onyxashanti wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:ok, everyone stop smoking crack and also stop reliving threads from slashdot.

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl? ... 91&tid=126

The topic has been discussed by some pretty bright people already.
well, my parents discussed politics long before i was born...doesn't mean i shouldn't and don't have to now. oh...and i think i'm reasonably clever and not in need of reading someone elses statements solely to replace my own... but thanks for the link.

onyx
point taken, still I was just trying to say that a site with 500,000 visitors per day which ran this as a feature may have been a good place to look as opposed to repeating discussions (in a contructive way, not a talk and kill time way) ... but obviously not everyone here reads every webforum in the world to know what they contain.

anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Wed May 25, 2005 5:59 pm

they're already here, amongst us.

Just recently though.

All may not be revealed. They may depart and return at a better time.

onyxashanti
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Post by onyxashanti » Wed May 25, 2005 6:09 pm

this forum has some reasonably entertaining OT's from time to time. and to discuss them with people of a similar mindset [ie electronic musicians] is nice...here and there. too draining to even think about this shit too often, but it's nice to spit a little blurb in between the other posts. [the silicon alien thing made me think

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Wed May 25, 2005 7:14 pm

This is the coolest thread ever. Wish I had more time to read in detail.
My 2 cents: A soft synth version of a classical guitar will never be the same as the actual thing. Even after countless parameters have been duplicated the guitar continues to physically change, while the synth does not.

One could argue that the new form would be like a butterfly coming out of a cocoon, though my intuition is that physical boundaries of me-the guitar, will drastically change, and perhaps, depsite the countless new matrix like powers I would have, I would not possess the same "warmth".

This is clearly another case of analog versus digital. I find it ironic to to think that a transcendental leap of faith would revolve around electrically interfaceing myself with a supercomputer, but I don't doubt it may come to that.

I worked with cell staining (fluorescent microscopy) for a little bit, and I was really fascinated by how engineered viruses like mutated herpes strains were used to physically allocate different dyes (seen under different wavelengths) to give multi-colored images of complex organic systems (with the confines of microtubules!) which could be rendered in 3-D!

Technology could possibly take us where we need to go. Biotech has not had the money that Silicon valley had (there is a distributable proportion I am working with here, please bear with me!) but as both these fields merge, I can see the technical side and the material aspects engineered at at intensely exponential rate, as both of these sciences are becoming more intrinsately related. I know several PHD students of robotics how have been working in the medical field. They also work closely with the military. THe gap between these orders is diminishing.

The real problem is the paradigm of one form of consciousness versus the next. It will take an Einstein to breach this gap.

In the meantime my conspiracy theory paranoia is going off. The FCC and the Christian conservative right wing (fu_king Clear Channel) already has such a domineering impact on American (and thus much of the world's) environment... Can you even imagine what it would be like to be vulnerable on such a level?

As it is, I still have never had a credit card, but I had to get a debit card in order to carry out basic life functions (like buying audio gear/softs online).
American society is pushing to a point where cash will be obsolete and all of our practices will be monitored. Fu_k! I had to give 20 electronic copies of my finger prints just to get temp work! I never even committed a crime, but my privacy has been invaded! I asked them if they were going to share them with anyone and they said "no... just the FBI"!!!

Who is a going to test these devices anyway? Wasn't Hitler's propaganda fueled by intellectual rhetoric? He actually held artists capative and had them utilize their creativity for him. Well I'll tell you, in this shitty economy most audio work that sells is for commercial gain, which often can be traced back to the shadow ideology behind larger corporations. And if you are studying robotics, which is one of the most intellectually demanding fields, you are almost entirely forced to work for the military.

What I am trying to say is that nothing is going to stop this direction from happening, but when it does... Telling your friend not to take drug or join the army to avoid poverty will be nothing compared to telling not to escape the horror we have helped create of this world in lew of a botched, slighted offer for omnipotence.

Taking the Jews into the showers was one thing but... especially with the decline of education these days...

Sheep. Bahahhhahhahha. Zap. Next!

anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Wed May 25, 2005 7:41 pm

We could all together froth up a cacophony of complexity, meshing together myriad disciplines like pure sciences, philosophy, art and faith.
I guess we may all come to a similar conclusion; technology, politics, power and overwhelming complexity conspire against the individual. We fear that forces beyond our control are nurturing an ever more dangerous decentralised unchallengeable future where everything is controlled and predetermined insofar as "permitted" progress dictates.

But really, we just defeat ourselves by allowing ourselve to become in any way paralysed or inhibited by this notion of everything moving in ever decreasing circles.

To leap into another paradigm, consider this - when has mankind been the most free? It was either when he roamed the great plains, naked, foraging for roots and berries, with no greater threat than the darkness of night or it is right now.

I believe mankind is in its most free and energetically explorative state ever. Things have not contracted, as some discussion on this thread might warn, instead they have expanded, and are expanding dramatically. It may feel as though there is a malevolent system emerging; but in truth, largely due to the phenomenon of the internet, we now have an extraordinary freeness across the globe that has never before been experienced or shared so broadly. There are barriers yet to be breached, but we are moving fast. We are greedy for progress because we yearn to see it all in our own finite lifetime.

There are many cases of restrictions of freedom that still happen around the world, but if anything, in a "big picture" 1st world macro sense, things are getting ever better and profound in terms of sharing of thought and communication.

Such deep momentum cannot be held back by any global regime, and freely shared thought, imagination and intelligence will make reality even the wildest of fantasies.

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