Is this The end of Humanity

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
noisetonepause
Posts: 4935
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
Location: Second row from the expensive puddle, under ten others

Post by noisetonepause » Wed May 25, 2005 9:13 pm

I don't believe this talk about 'downloading my consciousness into an artificial construct', TBH. It completely fucks up definitions of 'me' vs 'not me' and has everything implode in a puff of logic.

It is possible that we will be able to replicate traits and memories and behavioural patterns in articifial constructs, yeah. But will that be 'me'? No, it will not. At least not how I see it!

-Paws

anonymouse
Posts: 627
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:33 am

Post by anonymouse » Wed May 25, 2005 9:16 pm

noisetonepause wrote:I don't believe this talk about 'downloading my consciousness into an artificial construct', TBH. It completely fucks up definitions of 'me' vs 'not me' and has everything implode in a puff of logic.

It is possible that we will be able to replicate traits and memories and behavioural patterns in articifial constructs, yeah. But will that be 'me'? No, it will not. At least not how I see it!

-Paws
The copy of you that we have locked up in a garage in Geneva just typed exactly the same post you did and sent it to the virtual Ableton forum that we provided it with. How cute :lol:

onyxashanti
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:11 pm
Location: san francisco, ca
Contact:

Post by onyxashanti » Wed May 25, 2005 9:21 pm

anonymouse wrote:
noisetonepause wrote:I don't believe this talk about 'downloading my consciousness into an artificial construct', TBH. It completely fucks up definitions of 'me' vs 'not me' and has everything implode in a puff of logic.

It is possible that we will be able to replicate traits and memories and behavioural patterns in articifial constructs, yeah. But will that be 'me'? No, it will not. At least not how I see it!

-Paws
The copy of you that we have locked up in a garage in Geneva just typed exactly the same post you did and sent it to the virtual Ableton forum that we provided it with. How cute :lol:
:lol: :lol:

hoffman2k
Posts: 14716
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Post by hoffman2k » Wed May 25, 2005 9:37 pm

"I think, therefore i am."

(Sounds even better coming from a neurotic toaster with AI that can talk) :wink:

onyxashanti
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:11 pm
Location: san francisco, ca
Contact:

Post by onyxashanti » Wed May 25, 2005 9:58 pm

what's really a trip is that we are all semi-bionic now, and don't know it yet.

think about it. we all sit in our individual places debating and sharing info thru cyberspace like it is somewhat natural, but all of this...the internet, forums, file sharing, audio sequencing...it is not natural. some of us would not be doing anything even related to music were it not for these technological constructs. we are societally telepathic. meaning, the technology that we take for granted in this society has given us telepathic abilities [mobile phones, internet, weather forecasts, security cameras...] superhuman speed [cars] the ability to fly [planes] and access to damn near the entirety of collective human knowledge [internet again...specifically things like google]. i can sit here at the kitchen table and find out what ever i want to know about just about anything.

musically, i feel that modern music and music making tools has prepared our society for the upcoming genetic manipulation phase of human history. music used to be a flowing etherial thing that has a certain mystic. now it is a set of tools whereby if you understand how to "sequence" their component parts you can arrive at the desired whole. even at its simplest, it is a completely different paradigm than at any other time in human history. couple that with th ability to deconstruct sound, ala ableton.

i truly believe that technology is an inevitability of our ability to dream and manifest those dreams into THIS reality. the music that we make now is not just a result of that. i believe that electronic music actually manipulates th ways that listeners interpret their world; we are teaching generations to accept technology on an emotional level.

we are implicit in the downfall of mankind because we are providing it's quantized, pitch-shifted, time-warped sound track.

onyx

smart1123
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:39 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by smart1123 » Wed May 25, 2005 10:24 pm

onyxashanti wrote:we are implicit in the downfall of mankind because we are providing it's quantized, pitch-shifted, time-warped sound track.

onyx
well since "mankind" has done such a shitty job so far, bring on it's downfall I'm eager to see what happens next.
15" TiBook 1.5 GHz 1Gig RAM, MOTU Traveller, Live 5, Reaktor 5, Alesis Micron, Yamaha EX-5, UC-33e, BCR2000, Lexicon MPX-1, Orbit, Event 20/20's

forge
Posts: 17422
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:47 am
Location: Queensland, AU
Contact:

Post by forge » Wed May 25, 2005 10:27 pm

the big spanner in the works of all this ferocious technological progress will be the impending oil crisis - there really isn't going to be that long before it runs out and all this will be purely academic because it will set us back in an almost inconcievably major way......unless we solve the problem before it hits, but oil pervades so many aspects of modern life that it's difficult to see how we will find an alternative that does as much

claudek
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 10:21 pm

Post by claudek » Wed May 25, 2005 10:34 pm

I think in the near future we will be scarse of water.
Mac G4 Quicksilver 1000GHz / Motu 828 /OSX 10.3.9
&
Mac Ibook G4 800GHz OSX 10.3.9 /Core Audio/M Audio Oxy 8
PC: ASUS 2.8 GHz P4 / XP

Live 5.02

Martyn
Posts: 2505
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:22 am
Location: UK

Post by Martyn » Wed May 25, 2005 10:38 pm

Somewhere around i have a link to a rel player lecture given by this guy, but this site has most of the same info.

http://www.hubbertpeak.com/campbell/

Enjoy!
Last edited by Martyn on Wed May 25, 2005 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bobbydigital
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 10:17 pm
Location: Charleston, SC

Great thread, My 2 cents...

Post by bobbydigital » Wed May 25, 2005 10:40 pm

First, this thread is awesome, clearly it is not a coincidence that laptop disco-jockeys (or whatever we are..) have an disproportionately large interests in the nature of human consciousness, and that is a good thing…

Second, onyxashanti, you make a brilliant point about the role of electronic/computational/algorithmic music’s function in shaping society. “we are teaching generations to accept technology on an emotional level.” – I think your right, because I feel it too….

Third, It seems that there are two general reactions to the prospect of migrating consciousness onto a digital substrate. Some people find the notion theoretical feasible, if not technically difficult. Others are entirely taken aback with the idea; they can’t understand how their ‘self/soul/mind/ego’ could be disassembled and reconstituted as silicon/software whatever. I think these two lines of thought are directly related to how one views selfhood in general. Those that are willing to accept that the self might be an illusion are able to accept the idea consciousness without the carbon body bag. This is not a new idea. I truly believe that this issue of selfhood will be the most important philosophical issue of our lifetimes. Like Capricious removing earth from center stage, and Darwin removing the distinction b/w man and beast, modern cognitive science (especially the computational neuroscience of consciousness) will force us to once again reevaluate the nature of our existence.

Livewire
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:41 pm

Post by Livewire » Thu May 26, 2005 12:21 am

theres no way we're gona be able to save our consciousness in computers by 2050. thats bullshit. the people back in the 60s thought we would have flying cars by now. well that didnt happen, yet. humans are going through that arrogant stage again, just like back in the 60s with all those useless gadgets. it's like going through puberty. your body goes crazy with fast changes. well humanity as a whole is going through that, the digital puberty. we're going to have all these different types of technologies come out this genertion, and thats a good thing. it helps us advance. a lot of those technologies will die out, leaving the useful ones. computers were one of the things that survived.

the army always gets these technologies first, and somehow find a way to use it in warfare. i hate that. i see it on the discovery channel how they think they're so advanced now, well i think warfare is one of the least advanced things in global society. until we find a way to make peace with the world, then we will be able to truely make huge steps in technology, with everyone working together.

i'm guessing it will take hundreds and hundreds of years before we can have immortality. i'd rather die naturally anyways; heaven is much better than this place.

first it was photos, and we pretty much solved that with digital cameras and what not. next its audio. and when audio is solved, we'll move on to video. what i mean by this is that we have digital cameras now; theyre common houshold items now. we've gotten to the point where we cant tell the difference between a photoshopped image and an original image. and now with audio almost everyone has an ipod, will get it this christmas, will eventually get it, etc., but when we listen to music, it's not like we're actually at a concert. we havent gotten to that point yet, partly due to todays compression technologies. only until we will have full high-defintion, uncompressed audio will we have solved it. first we need to get bigger hardrives (the perpendicular technology is coming) and we need better capture quality from mics, and so on. and video is pretty much parallel to audio right now, with the introduction of plasma tvs and HD.

so my point is that it's going to take longer than you think. i cant wait till the day we will ba able to caputure shit directly from our brains. like DJ by just thinking of the music, or making awesome images and video. that would be sweet, but probably not in my lifetime.
: XP Pro Sp2 : 3.2GHz : 1GB RAM : Dell 8400 :
Live:Mawzer:Lemur:X-Station 25:I wish

dseir
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 10:04 pm
Contact:

Post by dseir » Thu May 26, 2005 1:20 am

Last edited by dseir on Fri May 09, 2008 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

adhmzaiusz
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:32 am
Location: the country side outside of Toronto

Post by adhmzaiusz » Thu May 26, 2005 1:26 am

actually, for all of you who haven't heard of this yet please visit http://www.johntitor.com

probably the most crazy thing ive heard since last year. now this is interesting.

<-------that is where i got my location

-->actually the site has changed much since ive been there last. click on the left about the story of john titor

you can shit your pants now, or shit them later. you decide
and sorry about the thread jack
Image

montrealbreaks
Posts: 995
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:38 pm
Location: Montreal Canada

Post by montrealbreaks » Thu May 26, 2005 1:55 am

Livewire wrote:
the army always gets these technologies first, and somehow find a way to use it in warfare. i hate that. i see it on the discovery channel how they think they're so advanced now, well i think warfare is one of the least advanced things in global society. until we find a way to make peace with the world, then we will be able to truely make huge steps in technology, with everyone working together.
...

so my point is that it's going to take longer than you think. i cant wait till the day we will ba able to caputure shit directly from our brains. like DJ by just thinking of the music, or making awesome images and video. that would be sweet, but probably not in my lifetime.
OK, in one paragraph you state that the military always develops and exploits technology first. Then in the other you wish that your personal thoughts could be interpreted by a machine to see (or hear rather) what's in your brain...

I think you need to think that paradox through a little more Livewire. Dangerous stuff that. I agree that the military is at the forefront of technological development AND implementation. The implementation bit is critical. Because 99.99% of the population (those without high level security clearances) can't decide what is being researched or how it's used, we are caught by the balls.

Think about it. Technology changes society. That's what we're discussing here, but let's look backwards not forwards. Steel was a military invention. So was gunpowder, so was the utilization of radio waves, so was the internet. All those things dramatically changed society - and in the case of all of them through non-military means as well as through war.

steel affected construction and production, gunpowder made mass-mining posible as well as empowered individuals against their state, radio and the internet both of obvious civilian utility.

So, whenever you consider a new technology think of this;

1. Does it have a military application?
2. If so, then somebody will research it in secret.
3. If anybody can research it in secret, only the most powerful can afford to.
4. The most powerful, when protected by secrecy, are able to act with impunity.

Put that in your pipe n' smoke it.

The one that really scares me is biotech. If you can map the human genome, and identify the genes necessary for say brown skin or asiatic eyes, then let's apply the four questions.

Does it have a military application? You betcha. Gene specific bio-weapons to saturate a country killing only people of certain ethnicities would be a powerful weapon, particularily for countries with multi-ethnic armies who can tailor their forces to foreign wars. Gonna fight in asia? Break out the anti-asiatic gas and deploy genetically european and african batallions.

And you can bet your pants that it's being looked into really seriously. In secret. And we have no idea.

:cry:
Last edited by montrealbreaks on Thu May 26, 2005 2:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

I have changed my username; Now posting as:


M. Bréqs

dseir
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 10:04 pm
Contact:

Post by dseir » Thu May 26, 2005 1:56 am

Last edited by dseir on Fri May 09, 2008 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply