external instrument sync?

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lumpenzero
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:56 pm

external instrument sync?

Post by lumpenzero » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:51 pm

Trying to sync a monotribe to live but no success so far.
A midi track sends the pulses to the sync in of the tribe and an audio track gets the audio from the synth.
When i set the aduio driver buffer to the lowest possible (64) then the delay is almost inaudible but if i set it to 512 then there is a huge delay.
Tried to set the track delay into the negative on the audio in track but it doesn't affect the delay, only positive values but that makes the situation even worse.
Tried the external audio effect plugin but the result is the same.
Am i doing something wrong or is it a bug?
Please advise

Live 8.1 64 bit

Dragonbreath
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:34 am

Re: external instrument sync?

Post by Dragonbreath » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:18 pm

IF your monitoring trough Live then its gonna sound out of sync at higher latency's. You would have to monitor latency free trough a mixer or the "zero" latency feature of your sound card.

Try recording the play back with monitor to off and you should not have any problems

lumpenzero
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: external instrument sync?

Post by lumpenzero » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:45 pm

Thanks for the input. I know this is an option (at least if i had a mixer) but i mean what is the point of the negative track delay if it doesn't work. But when positive values given to all other tracks then they are in sync. But setting ALL THE OTHER channels positive instead of setting ONE channels delay negative seems odd to me that's why i thought it is a bug or something.

Dragonbreath
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:34 am

Re: external instrument sync?

Post by Dragonbreath » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:50 pm

I know what your saying but doing that in real time would require a time machine. Lol

I suppose they could delay the other tracks if you set a negative value on one a track buts its not designed that way

vinz89
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:31 pm

Re: external instrument sync?

Post by vinz89 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:49 pm

Hi Lumpenzero,
Solution is:
Use the external instrument plug-in (and not the external audio effect plug-in) which is already delay compensated
Or, in the option menu enable "device delay compensation" and "Reduced Latency When Monitoring" (the latter is important because it toggles on or off the possibility to use the track delay settings)
Then check your overall latency in the preference/audio window
Then adjust your midi track delay (and not your audio track delay) to -(your overall latency)

Everything should be in sync...

Hope it helps
Cheers

squelcht
Posts: 1896
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:38 am
Location: QC, NC
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Re: external instrument sync?

Post by squelcht » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:55 pm

MIDI track delay of around -50 will probably fix it, as I have learned in the past. I've been slaving external sequencers to Live for years & there is no way around this. Put the latency back to your comfort zone (128, 256, 512) & adjust the midi delay accordingly. It'll jump around in increments of -25 you'll find. It'll cause the slaved sequencer to seem sluggish for the immediate first few steps but will sync it self by the next bar.

lumpenzero
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: external instrument sync?

Post by lumpenzero » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:38 pm

vinz89 wrote:Hi Lumpenzero,
Solution is:
Use the external instrument plug-in (and not the external audio effect plug-in) which is already delay compensated
Or, in the option menu enable "device delay compensation" and "Reduced Latency When Monitoring" (the latter is important because it toggles on or off the possibility to use the track delay settings)
Then check your overall latency in the preference/audio window
Then adjust your midi track delay (and not your audio track delay) to -(your overall latency)

Everything should be in sync...

Hope it helps
Cheers
In external instrument the audio from option is disabled. How do i enable it?
Where can i adjust the midi delay and not the audio?

squelcht
Posts: 1896
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:38 am
Location: QC, NC
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Re: external instrument sync?

Post by squelcht » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:02 pm

You adjust the MIDI delay in the preferences. Go to the MIDI/SYNC tab & locate what device is sending the MIDI OUT to your external device in the MIDI PORT section. There is a little drop-down arrow beside the device/port & upon clicking it you'll see the "MIDI CLOCK SYNC DELAY" level that is at 0.00ms by default. Try adjusting it to a -25 or -50. Start the clock & make sure the both sequencers are rolling & see if they are in better sync.

vinz89
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:31 pm

Re: external instrument sync?

Post by vinz89 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:00 am

Yeah, squeltch is probably right, midi track delay adjusting is for reducing latency when you sequence notes from Live to external gear
If it's a midi clock sync problem, try adjusting the midi clock sync delay in prefs
Also, if your on windows, try switching midi clock from MME to DIRECT MUSIC...

You should read the manual:
https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/midi-fact-sheet/

Cheers!

lumpenzero
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: external instrument sync?

Post by lumpenzero » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:20 am

you probably know but just to be sure: monotribe has no midi. how does midi settings affect the delay?

vinz89
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:31 pm

Re: external instrument sync?

Post by vinz89 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:56 pm

If Monotribe as no midi in or usb, then it's impossible to sync it's midi clock from a sequencer via midi out...

tone61
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:09 am

Re: external instrument sync?

Post by tone61 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:42 pm

vinz89 wrote:If Monotribe as no midi in or usb, then it's impossible to sync it's midi clock from a sequencer via midi out...
They seem to use another kind of sync. See Sync paragraph here:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul11/a ... otribe.htm

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