Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

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LKB3rd
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by LKB3rd » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:27 am

Google up "cymatics". It turns out if you play sounds under a surface with sand or other media on it, it makes pretty amazing designs at certain frequencies. Youtube has videos where you can see it happening. As the pitch goes higher and higher, the designs get more complex. They change at specific frequencies. 432hz is one of them. 440 is not. Make of it what you will, but it's worth checking out. It's food for thought for sure.
There are ancient Egyptian drawings where the "Anunaki" are holding rods pointed at objects with designs that you get when doing these "cymatic" experiments, which to me is pretty mind blowing. Makes you wonder if there really is some sort of magic(for lack of a better word) to sound. Especially interesting to us as musicians. We all know how sound can make us feel certain ways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zw0uWCNsyw
At 432 you get crisp images, and at 440, you get broken images in transition.

H20nly
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by H20nly » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:42 am

Since the ideal listening area is the tip of an imaginary triangle formed by positioning your monitors at equally spaced corners only two conclusions can be drawn...

1st - We are all Pharaohs
2nd - Alton Towers beef burgers taste like shit due to the fact that they are round.

irrelevance
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by irrelevance » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:59 am

LKB3rd wrote:Google up "cymatics". It turns out if you play sounds under a surface with sand or other media on it, it makes pretty amazing designs at certain frequencies. Youtube has videos where you can see it happening. As the pitch goes higher and higher, the designs get more complex. They change at specific frequencies. 432hz is one of them. 440 is not. Make of it what you will, but it's worth checking out. It's food for thought for sure.
There are ancient Egyptian drawings where the "Anunaki" are holding rods pointed at objects with designs that you get when doing these "cymatic" experiments, which to me is pretty mind blowing. Makes you wonder if there really is some sort of magic(for lack of a better word) to sound. Especially interesting to us as musicians. We all know how sound can make us feel certain ways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zw0uWCNsyw
At 432 you get crisp images, and at 440, you get broken images in transition.

Yes we as a species tend to attribute significance to pattern and order. But I would say it's subjective as to the signicance of each pattern. There's plenty of incongruence and discord in nature too and this is just as signicant depending on the situation I guess! And we all believe in something a little strange.

I like messing with tunnings from time to time in absynth or modular but it always find it's way into common scales when composing. Maybe too lazy :oops:

33tetragammon
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by 33tetragammon » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:30 am

H20nly wrote:Since the ideal listening area is the tip of an imaginary triangle formed by positioning your monitors at equally spaced corners only two conclusions can be drawn...

1st - We are all Pharaohs
2nd - Alton Towers beef burgers taste like shit due to the fact that they are round.
Good points, you got me convinced. I switched from one belief system to the next. What a relief…
It's like multi-level Blue Pill Matrix stuff.

madlab
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by madlab » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:02 pm

LKB3rd wrote:Google up "cymatics". It turns out if you play sounds under a surface with sand or other media on it, it makes pretty amazing designs at certain frequencies. Youtube has videos where you can see it happening. As the pitch goes higher and higher, the designs get more complex. They change at specific frequencies. 432hz is one of them. 440 is not. Make of it what you will, but it's worth checking out. It's food for thought for sure.
There are ancient Egyptian drawings where the "Anunaki" are holding rods pointed at objects with designs that you get when doing these "cymatic" experiments, which to me is pretty mind blowing. Makes you wonder if there really is some sort of magic(for lack of a better word) to sound. Especially interesting to us as musicians. We all know how sound can make us feel certain ways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zw0uWCNsyw
At 432 you get crisp images, and at 440, you get broken images in transition.
This is due to proper modes of resonance for the material they used as a surface (same as room modes). Change the size, the shape, the material and you will get a very different set of patterns according to the pitch you use. So what you see here as magic is just a coincidence.
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TomViolenz
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by TomViolenz » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:37 pm

madlab wrote:
LKB3rd wrote:Google up "cymatics". It turns out if you play sounds under a surface with sand or other media on it, it makes pretty amazing designs at certain frequencies. Youtube has videos where you can see it happening. As the pitch goes higher and higher, the designs get more complex. They change at specific frequencies. 432hz is one of them. 440 is not. Make of it what you will, but it's worth checking out. It's food for thought for sure.
There are ancient Egyptian drawings where the "Anunaki" are holding rods pointed at objects with designs that you get when doing these "cymatic" experiments, which to me is pretty mind blowing. Makes you wonder if there really is some sort of magic(for lack of a better word) to sound. Especially interesting to us as musicians. We all know how sound can make us feel certain ways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zw0uWCNsyw
At 432 you get crisp images, and at 440, you get broken images in transition.
This is due to proper modes of resonance for the material they used as a surface (same as room modes). Change the size, the shape, the material and you will get a very different set of patterns according to the pitch you use. So what you see here as magic is just a coincidence.
Oh, this shows so nicely what kind of methods quacks of all pseudo sciences like to use, to convince the gullible!

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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by re:dream » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:03 pm

Careful now, people. We're on the verge of getting into a religious / spiritual discussion. And we don't want that, do we.

LKB3rd
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by LKB3rd » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:19 pm

I don't understand all the hate. People seem to be really attached to 440. Also seems that people get ticked off at the possibility that "modern science" and understanding isn't the pinnacle of all knowledge.
Personally I am somewhat agnostic on the 432 thing, but since for example no scientist can explain something we all accept and are affected by constantly, like gravity, only measure its effect, we might as well call it magic too. It is more of an explanation than scientists can give us. So, I am willing to entertain the idea that there are things going on which we don't comprehend, and I find it interesting and valuable to consider things that scientists brush off. They can't even explain why we don't all float off into space.

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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by re:dream » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:49 pm

It's not hate, it's just facts and reason.

I don't understand why you say people are 'attached' t 440 hz.

It's just an agreed upon standard. It could be 444 or 432 or 666 for all I care, but now that it is 440, hey, that's a convenient point in the sound spectrum from which to work.

It's like the length of a metre. At the moment it is defined as the the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second. Now if you were to start arguing that some other interval is aesthetically better - you might be right, you might be wrong - but that's irrelevant. 1//299,792,458 is what we are stuck with, and there is no earthly reason to change.

As for the 432 'thing' being something that cannot be explained by science - it seems to me that the reason is simple. There is no '432 thing'. All the arguments that 432 hz is somehow a special frequency are quite specious.

LKB3rd
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by LKB3rd » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:57 pm

The 432 thing says that 432 is magical, like gravity :lol: You believe in gravity, right? Well then you too believe in magic. :wink:
Last edited by LKB3rd on Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yur2die4
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:57 pm

American: What's a meter?

Other: I dunno, whatsameter with You?


I'd like to say that there is a fine like between science and mysticism.
To simply observe the appearance of something and consider it important is more like, numerology.
What is required is for there to distinct controllable observations. In the case of gravity we have discerned many ways in which it acts upon things. In evolution we've observed very specific progressions of traits amongst species. The 432 thing doesn't Do a whole lot. There are plenty of other frequencies that make patterns. Why tune for A?? We are simply taking a random phenomenon and applying significance to it, but using the number closest to our culture's current tuning method. How we choose to tune is based on our random uninformed decisions and we just find it easy. Use whatever tuning frequency you want. Don't be surprised when everyone and their instruments gather around the 432 piano and it sounds like garbage. (Imagine constantly retuning a piano......)

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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by re:dream » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:14 pm

80-90% of Americans would need that joke explained to them.

yur2die4
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:16 pm

I'm American and.... honestly my conversion to metrics is terrible. When someone tells me they are such and such centimeters tall. I'm like 'huh?' And then they sigh... And tell me in feet and inches.

If I'm not mistaken, US scientists will use the metric standard so that their findings can be communicated internationally.

Actually, speaking of 'American', I've been getting into the habit of specifically referring to 'America' as the United States. It is funny how easy it is for the US to say 'we're America, Americans only plz', and yet from Canada down to Chile is all 'America' and are all Americans. I think people look harder for traits that distinguish themselves from others than their commonalities. But that's a whole other topic :P
Last edited by yur2die4 on Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LKB3rd
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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by LKB3rd » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:26 pm

yur2die4 wrote: I'd like to say that there is a fine like between science and mysticism.
One of the points I am making is that there is no reason (except arrogance imo) to say one is more valid than the other. I think mysticism or magic or any number of terms for it may have a better chance of explaining how the universe works than science. Quantum physics looks more like mysticism than traditional science these days.
As far as choosing to use whatever you want for musical tuning, I totally agree. But to say that it's silly or hippy dippy or any of the criticisms you'll see when this topic comes up indicates arrogance and closed mindedness in my opinion.
You're never going to learn anything if you/we are convinced you/we know it all. We clearly don't know crap about the world around us, as demonstrated by the magical gravity argument. That isn't personally directed at anyone in the thread btw.

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Re: Music tuned to 432Hz wtf!?

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:33 pm

If you observe my first post on this thread, you'll see that I approached it from many angles which are based on musical theory. And basically stated that, for all we know, out entire understanding of musical concepts could be completely wrong on many different levels. And How we would choose to apply 432 could be not only for a tuning of a diatonic/chromatic scale, but could possibly be applied in many other creative, inspiring and radical manners. Why limit our scope of understanding of that frequency strictly to old western ideals?

Also, I will link you to the other 432.10 thread which also has many interesting interpretations of tunings
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=143601

Edit: in a specific reply to your comment. Science is observing that the phenomena occur. Pseudo science is assuming correlations of its significance. Same goes with gravity. We deal with gravity. We do not make up that gravity is a hand of spirits pulling at us, it is feasible, but all we can do is measure and observe it's behavior.

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