The Great BitWig Migration

ezelkow1 · Post by **ezelkow1** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:15 pm

fishmonkey wrote:from what i've seen, people who have actually been trying to make music in Bitwig have been running into major workflow show-stoppers, including the omissions that you have mentioned.

i just think they spread themselves too thin, trying to achieve too much too quickly.

anyway, i hope they make it through...

This is what Ive seen as well. It seems to me the majority of their bugs have not really been with peoples configurations, but actual bugs that exist program wide for everyone. I mean if you look at their bugfix lists for their releases the vast majority have been program wide

H20nly · Post by **H20nly** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:19 am

Machinesworking wrote:My guess the 1.69 number is it's every purchase they've had since they started.
Purchase, not upgrade.

112 thousand+ users on the forum. only about 80,000 of those are mults.

@ 10k [actual] users per copy and 10 thousand copies being purchased per version... that would be 90,000...
90k+80k = 170,000
-10,000 since the forum doesn't exist after Live 8 = 160,000

they must be smudging.

re:dream · Post by **re:dream** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:22 am

ezelkow1 wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:from what i've seen, people who have actually been trying to make music in Bitwig have been running into major workflow show-stoppers, including the omissions that you have mentioned.

i just think they spread themselves too thin, trying to achieve too much too quickly.

anyway, i hope they make it through...
This is what Ive seen as well. It seems to me the majority of their bugs have not really been with peoples configurations, but actual bugs that exist program wide for everyone. I mean if you look at their bugfix lists for their releases the vast majority have been program wide

So much for 'objectively better'

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:38 am

H20nly wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:My guess the 1.69 number is it's every purchase they've had since they started.
Purchase, not upgrade.
112 thousand+ users on the forum. only about 80,000 of those are mults.

@ 10k [actual] users per copy and 10 thousand copies being purchased per version... that would be 90,000...
90k+80k = 170,000
-10,000 since the forum doesn't exist after Live 8 = 160,000

they must be smudging.

Not sure how you're getting those numbers?
If they have even 10K users per copy at $160 for standard even that's $1.6 million per upgrade. Not factoring in Push, packs, Suite, and that the number is probably much larger than 10K upgrades worldwide. I would imagine that the number of upgrades is closer to 40K or more, even 100K for a possible 1.6 million upgrades is more likely, and that would be around 16 million for an upgrade cash flow, again without Push in there. Any way you look at it the company is solvent.

H20nly · Post by **H20nly** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:46 am

true. I was counting the number of copies... but didn't do any maths as far as dollar amount... just copies sold.

So... even though I was half taking the piss... "the numbers don't lie"

re:dream · Post by **re:dream** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:54 am

Best info I could find, based upon about 30 seconds' googling is in the German company register:

https://www.unternehmensregister.de/ure ... d=12816707

No time for more than a quick scan - but:

Operating Income in 2012: € 13 million
Staff costs: € 7.2 million
Retained earnings € 4.094 million
Profit from ordinary activities: € 1.784 million

re:dream · Post by **re:dream** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:46 am

... and Bitwig is here

https://www.unternehmensregister.de/ure ... d=12816707

But it is not nearly as informative since they were not really doing business in this year. Looking at this and their previous year, 2010, it looks as if staying in business cost them about 120 000 to 150 000 Euros per year, which is much less than I expected. But I don't really know how to read the balance sheet of a startup.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:10 am

I dunno. I just know that live has a better product currently for my needs than buttwig.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:13 am

One thing I want to make clear too........me? GEAR HO. I'm not just ragging on bitshit because I have some overly fanboi link to live. I'd be all over it if it was kosher. SERIOUSLY. It's just not. It's almost embarrassing how far behind it is and for that price? Squirrel PLEASE!

kb420 · Post by **kb420** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:20 pm

eyeknow wrote:One thing I want to make clear too........me? GEAR HO. I'm not just ragging on bitshit because I have some overly fanboi link to live. I'd be all over it if it was kosher. SERIOUSLY. It's just not. It's almost embarrassing how far behind it is and for that price? Squirrel PLEASE!

I understand exactly where you are coming from. I actually want to like Bitwig, but it's just not ready right now. I just can't fuck with it in it's current state.

H20nly · Post by **H20nly** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm

i have no need to want to like it.

fuck Bitwig.

kb420 · Post by **kb420** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:32 pm

H20nly wrote:i have no need to want to like it.

fuck Bitwig.

tezza · Post by **tezza** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:32 am

PantsDown wrote:I'd love to know how many professional musicians are desperate for Bitwig because the "flawed or missing" features in Live are holding them back..... not many I bet. Too busy making music!

Agreed. I've done two test projects on Bitwig now, just to test it out. I like a lot of the bitwig stuff, but when I am working quickly with digital audio, I need to use the faders. No crossfades and cumbersome faders is a deal-breaker. Also, where is the APC40 support? They should have had this out of the box. Making everyone wait for years and then saying "here's an API, go make your own controller support" is a bit rude, and an experiment which I do not have the time to participate in (and I know javascript). Regardless of release date, bitwig is still beta. ps. half of m VSTs are still not showing up. Keep trying bitwig. Hopefully Ableton will steal some of their ideas to make Live 10 even more kickarse. Live's instruments and effects are still killer. Hard to beat the built-in library - never ending descovery right there...

Ableton Live / Reaper / Harrison Mixbus... still the killer combo for me right now. Can't been reaper when a project gets large and unweildly. I also use it for multi-tracking. Ableton, PLEASE give us something to help with track management - at the very least, a track manager that allows us to turn visibility off/on for arrangement and session views. Just copy what reaper has - it can't be that hard. Implement track folder heirachies later

Bitwig audio and stretch algorithms sound nice. Not enough to save it though. Crossfades or die, bitch!

Oppenheimer · Post by **Oppenheimer** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:44 am

histogram manipulation automatically makes bitwig better than ableton, fewer options to set, takes 3 minutes to learn,

BoUnCe In PlAcE

plus live is for nerds

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:50 am

I've been asked by the ableton people not to feed the trolls. This is a difficult concept after a post like that

The Great BitWig Migration

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