The Great BitWig Migration

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

Will you leave Ableton for BitWig?

Nope, I'm staying right here.
216
50%
Yes, I'll be part of the great BitWig migration.
52
12%
Too soon to call, I'll wait and see.
120
28%
I intend to use both
44
10%
 
Total votes: 432

Angstrom
Posts: 14661
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Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Angstrom » Mon May 05, 2014 1:52 pm

ian_halsall wrote:as a programmer of 25 years I thought the pre-release claims were very ambitious and with hindsight far too ambitious
I might be slightly lost in the fog, but which claims did they make which they didn't achieve?
From what I remember, everything they said would be in version one is in version one. So they achieved their feature ambitions for this version.

Here's the first internet archive of what they claimed would be in V1 and I'd say that's pretty accurate. Everything they claimed is in there.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120115105 ... studio.php

dna598
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:42 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by dna598 » Mon May 05, 2014 2:33 pm

I, for one, have been utterly stumped by the fact that in Bitwig, one cannot trigger cells by anything except the mouse. er, HELLO.

8O
ctrl + left/right = select transient

ctrl + shift + left/right = select between transients

ctrl + space = play selection

ian_halsall
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Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by ian_halsall » Mon May 05, 2014 3:10 pm

Angstrom wrote:
ian_halsall wrote:as a programmer of 25 years I thought the pre-release claims were very ambitious and with hindsight far too ambitious
I might be slightly lost in the fog, but which claims did they make which they didn't achieve?
From what I remember, everything they said would be in version one is in version one. So they achieved their feature ambitions for this version.

Here's the first internet archive of what they claimed would be in V1 and I'd say that's pretty accurate. Everything they claimed is in there.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120115105 ... studio.php
I thought most of it didn't work - anyway I don't really care tbh - not sure why I posted on this thread - I was just bored.

Analog4Science
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:10 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Analog4Science » Mon May 05, 2014 4:17 pm

I like the way Bitwig looks, it looks better than Live to me. But push is why i purchased Live and why i will stay. The hardware integration and session mode are the most important things for me. Function over fashion.

ezelkow1
Posts: 366
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:22 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by ezelkow1 » Mon May 05, 2014 4:43 pm

ezelkow1 wrote:
kb420 wrote:
TTOZ wrote:Presonus often have sales and the big one can be had for 199 or less :) Studio one works very well with Live through rewire :)
I think I just missed the last one. How often do they have these sales? Do they advertise them?
Usually every 6mo or so, seems more often recently though. I think they've started to split up their sales more into one for new purchases, and one for upgrades. They advertise them on their site and through emails. Usually if they have a sale partners also do like audiodeluxe, jrr, etc. The last email/post/whatever I saw from presonus made it sound like they have something planned for cinco de mayo, so you may be in luck on monday
Looks like their cinco sale is for some addons, but you can get the artist version for 5$, DO IT. Since they have half off upgrade sales once or twice a year, this basically means eventually you can get producer for 55$ or pro for 155$. Also having artist will give you a good idea of the workflow and how it comes together, the main thing your missing is vst/au support, but you can use the simple built in mojito plus their sampler and drum machine and have full audio editing support
Last edited by ezelkow1 on Mon May 05, 2014 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

deva
Posts: 1685
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by deva » Mon May 05, 2014 5:10 pm

eyeknow wrote:
My objection to bitwig is well noted so I'll spare rehashing them, but it wouldn't work for me, at least not currently. Regardless of WHY there was so much hype, there was. And it's a put off because as a consumer I have certain expectations. I know Angstrom made a funny comment about this but all that time, plus many mandatory features missing (for me admittedly) and people complaining about bugs/stability is kinda insane. If they would have released it earlier, w/o the attitude, and allowed the INEVITABLE problems to sort themselves out, I think many many people would have a different attitude.
I don't think Bitwig particularly hyped it themselves. They were mostly silent with people regularly complaining that they were not active enough in informing people about Bitwig Studio. There was a fairly steady criticism that their marketing sucked because they were not hyping it more... heh

Anyway, to me there simply is not a problem. There is a demo and each person can demo it and decide. Maybe 6-12 months from now it will be hugely improved. Maybe it will never fully develop. It's just some guys trying to make some useful software.

deva
Posts: 1685
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by deva » Mon May 05, 2014 5:35 pm

TTOZ wrote:
deva wrote: 2 huge things...

Basically, when it comes to session view, Live stands alone... That is a major reason why so many people use it even though it is weak in other areas. Bitwig is an exciting development because it offers an even better core clip launching function than Live (better integration between clip launcher and arrangement) and it has some other compelling features.

I haven't purchased Bitwig (yet) because it still needs plenty of work. Plenty of people who are interested in it and even bought it, understand it is a work in progress. There is a lot of continued interest in Bitwig even though it is still in a rough state because Live is the only other option and it has some frustrating flaws that may or may not be addressed in a timely manner. Studio One is not a viable Live replacement, and so it does not matter what features it has.
Like i said for the price of bitwig you can have two daw's perfectly synced and actually capable. However, on it's own, Fine, it's a live performance tool then, but no daw.

The modulation thing is not a big deal *at all*. Where did this suddenly become a big thing? Reason has been doing that since version 1.0 and does it better than anything else ever will, and with an ever expanding library of on board devices and RE's. And the on board bitshit devices are just that, shit. I was laughing about how ordinary the factory synths and effects were. So who cares, i can route them in many ways, to blend shit with shit. LOL.

Or get mux and even though you can do less, at least do it with VST's.

SO we are back to one big thing. the clip launcher. I know sonar does it but I am not sure how as i haven't used that functionality. But i do know sonar basic entry level is a MUCH more capable and better DAW than bitwig. Sonar basic + ableton basic = half cost of bitwig and infinitely superior. Another example.

Bitshit has been marketed as an overall DAW, and it's just *not*. Well, not compared to anything else in the market, even n track (cues laughter). It's a basic, stripped down, ejay type music maker basic basic BASIC program. With 2 fancy features. LOL.
The modulation system is a big deal... and it works with VST's too... which Reason doesn't do. Bitwig's modulation system is a joy to work with.

I think you have a hard time with the concept that not every one is the same. Just because you find something that fits your needs, does not mean it will fit everyones needs. If Bitwig doesn't interest you, that is perfectly fine... but there are some excellent things about it.

There are more than 2 fancy features.
Lots of people are excited about Bitwig because it runs on Linux.
The plug-in crash protection is sweet.
The Open Controller API.
Note expression...

Then there are lots of features that Live users would love to have...
layered editing
histograms
multiple audio events within a clip and some sweet editing
multiple projects open at once
64 and 32 bit plug-ins both can be used
and of course automation pdc...

deva
Posts: 1685
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by deva » Mon May 05, 2014 5:36 pm

Angstrom wrote:
ian_halsall wrote:as a programmer of 25 years I thought the pre-release claims were very ambitious and with hindsight far too ambitious
I might be slightly lost in the fog, but which claims did they make which they didn't achieve?
From what I remember, everything they said would be in version one is in version one. So they achieved their feature ambitions for this version.

Here's the first internet archive of what they claimed would be in V1 and I'd say that's pretty accurate. Everything they claimed is in there.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120115105 ... studio.php
+1

cstump
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:37 am
Location: Dona Ana, New Mexico, in the U.S.of A.

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by cstump » Mon May 05, 2014 5:50 pm

The title says it all, as far as the hype is concerned. It was all those potential buyers who created the hype without the help of Bitwig. It was their pipe dreams that led to unending threads here there and everywhere about the "second Coming" of a Savior of an App to steer the unknowing and ignorant away from Live with the constant drum beating about what Bitwig was supposed to bring right out of the box or sometime during version 1. That is not Bitwig's fault, the blame lies with the Bitwig "Pre" fanboys.

The title STILL exclaims a "Great Migration" even after the fantasy has been revealed as nothing more than USER anticipated over the top hype.


...and that is not Bitwig's fault. Bitwig might have something later but in my opinion the roll out hurt them for a while, next time(version 2 maybe) they should coordinate better with their fanboy's to tamp down the hype a bit so the let down wont be as bad as this fiasco.
Quote:"There's a Bitwig thread born every second"

Hermanus
Posts: 1648
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:47 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Hermanus » Mon May 05, 2014 6:37 pm

Time for some:
Image

And we've got several flavors:
Image

sit down and enjoy :lol:

eyeknow
Posts: 5822
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:16 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by eyeknow » Mon May 05, 2014 8:59 pm

Ok, I've decided to "grow" and be more accepting........enjoy bitwig or live!

Image

#1thelark
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:06 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by #1thelark » Mon May 05, 2014 9:15 pm

Excellent Bitwig Tutorials. Bookmarked.

http://www.youtube.com/user/thechangeofends

H20nly
Posts: 15836
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by H20nly » Mon May 05, 2014 9:58 pm

Bitwig hype... Pffft! Who remembers the hype for M4L?

Machinesworking
Posts: 11093
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Machinesworking » Tue May 06, 2014 4:37 am

H20nly wrote:Bitwig hype... Pffft! Who remembers the hype for M4L?
Oh jesus fuck even worse. I switched from Digital Performer to Logic right before they were bought out by Apple and discontinued the PC version. The subsequent hype from Apple fanboys on how puurfeft this would be, and the PC Logic users in a holy shitstorm of anger made it like wading through concrete at times to ask any question about Logic on any music forum, and of course I had questions. So it would be:
"Hi, how do you hook up a multi instrument in Logic? I'm on a Mac if that matters."

"FUCK APPLE!"
Then someone would chime in about how Macs were better and so on!


The anger/disappointment and fanboy-ism about the 1.0 release here is nothing compared. Go to KVR where the semi official Bitwig forum is and it's not as bad as posts here either. This is a cakewalk.

TTOZ
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:05 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by TTOZ » Tue May 06, 2014 2:55 pm

deva wrote:
TTOZ wrote:
deva wrote: 2 huge things...

Basically, when it comes to session view, Live stands alone... That is a major reason why so many people use it even though it is weak in other areas. Bitwig is an exciting development because it offers an even better core clip launching function than Live (better integration between clip launcher and arrangement) and it has some other compelling features.

I haven't purchased Bitwig (yet) because it still needs plenty of work. Plenty of people who are interested in it and even bought it, understand it is a work in progress. There is a lot of continued interest in Bitwig even though it is still in a rough state because Live is the only other option and it has some frustrating flaws that may or may not be addressed in a timely manner. Studio One is not a viable Live replacement, and so it does not matter what features it has.
Like i said for the price of bitwig you can have two daw's perfectly synced and actually capable. However, on it's own, Fine, it's a live performance tool then, but no daw.

The modulation thing is not a big deal *at all*. Where did this suddenly become a big thing? Reason has been doing that since version 1.0 and does it better than anything else ever will, and with an ever expanding library of on board devices and RE's. And the on board bitshit devices are just that, shit. I was laughing about how ordinary the factory synths and effects were. So who cares, i can route them in many ways, to blend shit with shit. LOL.

Or get mux and even though you can do less, at least do it with VST's.

SO we are back to one big thing. the clip launcher. I know sonar does it but I am not sure how as i haven't used that functionality. But i do know sonar basic entry level is a MUCH more capable and better DAW than bitwig. Sonar basic + ableton basic = half cost of bitwig and infinitely superior. Another example.

Bitshit has been marketed as an overall DAW, and it's just *not*. Well, not compared to anything else in the market, even n track (cues laughter). It's a basic, stripped down, ejay type music maker basic basic BASIC program. With 2 fancy features. LOL.
The modulation system is a big deal... and it works with VST's too... which Reason doesn't do. Bitwig's modulation system is a joy to work with.

I think you have a hard time with the concept that not every one is the same. Just because you find something that fits your needs, does not mean it will fit everyones needs. If Bitwig doesn't interest you, that is perfectly fine... but there are some excellent things about it.

There are more than 2 fancy features.
Lots of people are excited about Bitwig because it runs on Linux.
The plug-in crash protection is sweet.
The Open Controller API.
Note expression...

Then there are lots of features that Live users would love to have...
layered editing
histograms
multiple audio events within a clip and some sweet editing
multiple projects open at once
64 and 32 bit plug-ins both can be used
and of course automation pdc...
I think it's that you can't seem to accept that when one talks at a forum they are talking from their own viewpoint and it is simply my opinion.

But your ignorance on the comment regarding Reason is astounding.

I said RE's.. that's reason's plug in format.

Use the program before you comment. Have you seen the back of a synth in reason lately? The cv inputs and outputs? Exactly.

The last time i looked at a vsti, it had a set of audio outs (or multi outs) and a midi in and out. The last time i looked at a vst FX, it had audoi in and out, sidechain in if available, and a midi in if midi controllable.

You can't do any more with bitwig's modulation with VST than you can do with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sxOt0VNZuw

Same for it's note expression. (cubase much? But at least that works with halion sonic which is a very high quality instrument unlike the total crap included with bitwig).

I will continue to maintain that the program is pure garbage and you are welcome to maintain otherwise.
I am bitwig, pick me, pick me, i now hAs midi export!

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