The Great BitWig Migration

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

Will you leave Ableton for BitWig?

Nope, I'm staying right here.
216
50%
Yes, I'll be part of the great BitWig migration.
52
12%
Too soon to call, I'll wait and see.
121
28%
I intend to use both
44
10%
 
Total votes: 433

eyeknow
Posts: 5822
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:16 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by eyeknow » Thu May 08, 2014 7:20 am

Machinesworking wrote:
H20nly wrote:I said it before:
H20nly wrote:i'm sure the Linux community is up in arms about this software that you... pay... for.

i'm sure they're all bashing in their alias and their credit numbers so they can can cd, mkdir, and apt-get Bitwig and then killall the music scene the world over so they can finally take a well earned night off of coding. :roll:
:lol: :lol: like coders aren't making music? Max 4 Live, and the Python script to make your controller work with Live, the guys popping in with little .als files with code to make Push into a video game etc.

Here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/search.ph ... 5B0%5D=259

So yeah I think they made the right choice there; it's definitely a "Build it and they will come" situation.

What I'm curious about is how the Linux version will fare as far as CPU? The major advantage of open source is the possibility of the lack of bloatware.
Meh. My attitude is if they worried more about REAL platforms (and things like rewire, AU, etc etc) they would COME more :)

So much for my blossoming flower hun? :lol:

ansolas
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 pm
Location: Earth ~ Europe ~ Germany ~ Cuxheaven

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by ansolas » Thu May 08, 2014 8:32 am

deva wrote:
ansolas wrote:no push support yet
It is coming along... there is a thread on the Bitwig forum, some people working on it together and a script to download. I have not tried it yet. There is some core stuff not yet in the API so it will be a while for full support.
Where is that download? please.

darth_fader
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by darth_fader » Thu May 08, 2014 11:31 am

ansolas wrote:
deva wrote:
ansolas wrote:no push support yet
It is coming along... there is a thread on the Bitwig forum, some people working on it together and a script to download. I have not tried it yet. There is some core stuff not yet in the API so it will be a while for full support.
Where is that download? please.
You can download the script from my homepage: http://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/Push/Push.html

The related thread on the Bitwig forum is here: www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=259&t=409982

The upcoming 2.5 will be pretty close to feature completion.

deva
Posts: 1685
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by deva » Thu May 08, 2014 3:48 pm

darth_fader wrote:
The upcoming 2.5 will be pretty close to feature completion.
Nice... Good time to try it out!

Machinesworking
Posts: 11131
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Machinesworking » Thu May 08, 2014 5:04 pm

cstump wrote: Their explanation is on the record at KVR in the host forum in the 400 some odd page ongoing Bitwig Speculation and Cat pic thread. They claim just as has been mentioned here that Rewire IS OLD and Outdated and a thing of the soon to be past.

Once again their outright arrogance in this matter eludes more than just me logically in the case of Windows, your quite right as to cross support though but as has been suggested before they might have been better to first release the Linux version and allowed the beta to keep going on the other 2 OS's until it got baked a little more and Jack could become a better working solution for Windows which it isn't at the moment.

It's really a turn off for us Hold Outs, Dinosaurs if you will... I guess we will die off eventually.
Jack runs pretty good on OSX, haven't used it in a while but last time I did it had no complete transport sync like Rewire has, IE bar 85 in DAW A didn't mean that DAW B would automatically jump to bar 85. I'm about to mess around with it today so at leas on OSX I can see where it's at.

diimoxy
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 2:47 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by diimoxy » Fri May 09, 2014 2:50 am

I'll be waiting for Bitwig to advance, and honestly, without ReWire capabilities I'd rather just work with Ableton Live 9 and wait for Bitwig to finally give in to ReWire...The only thing that really calls my attention with Bitwig is its individual note parameters and editing. I'm sure Ableton will add that feature in the near future.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11131
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Machinesworking » Fri May 09, 2014 8:16 am

diimoxy wrote:I'll be waiting for Bitwig to advance, and honestly, without ReWire capabilities I'd rather just work with Ableton Live 9 and wait for Bitwig to finally give in to ReWire...The only thing that really calls my attention with Bitwig is its individual note parameters and editing. I'm sure Ableton will add that feature in the near future.
The main feature it has that I would use in an instant is multiple open Sets in a tabbed interface. Perfect for live performance, since each set can have it's own MIDI mappings to various VSTs to various controllers etc.


Also, Jack is behind in OSX anyway, the VST and AU plug ins are not 64 bit yet. first caveat. :?

Sibanger
Posts: 2225
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:44 am
Location: Melbourne/Australia
Contact:

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Sibanger » Fri May 09, 2014 8:59 am

Machinesworking wrote: The main feature it has that I would use in an instant is multiple open Sets in a tabbed interface. Perfect for live performance, since each set can have it's own MIDI mappings to various VSTs to various controllers etc.
This :)

Can't believe Abes haven't moved in this direction..... their loss.

timday
Posts: 568
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:02 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by timday » Fri May 09, 2014 9:09 am

Well, what's the load time for going between tabs? It takes me about 20 seconds to load a new Ableton set onstage (which is a lot of dead time and a problem) but most of that time is loading plugins and samples. If Bitwig gets round this by having all the plugs and samples enabled across multiple tabs it seems to me it'll run out of CPU and RAM pretty rapidly. If on the other hand it loads them whenever you click the tab I don't see that the load time can be much faster than Ableton sets so I don't see the advantage.

Anyone know the answer to this?

Angstrom
Posts: 14722
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Angstrom » Fri May 09, 2014 12:37 pm

timday wrote:Well, what's the load time for going between tabs? It takes me about 20 seconds to load a new Ableton set onstage (which is a lot of dead time and a problem) but most of that time is loading plugins and samples. If Bitwig gets round this by having all the plugs and samples enabled across multiple tabs it seems to me it'll run out of CPU and RAM pretty rapidly. If on the other hand it loads them whenever you click the tab I don't see that the load time can be much faster than Ableton sets so I don't see the advantage.

Anyone know the answer to this?
From what I could tell - Each tab has its own "engine", when a set is deactivated its engine is off. When you flip through tabs you activate that tab and that engine, and the others switch off. It seemed quite instant to me, but I've only tried the demo, so its not like I'm loading 18 huge songs.

I'll very likely buy it when it's grown a little more. I don't buy version 1 of anything.

regretfullySaid
Posts: 8913
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri May 09, 2014 1:16 pm

Which means that live still has the advantage if you want to play multiple sets seamlessly; at least the closest; because you'd have to combine multiple sets into one if you don't want any music to stop. I don't see why Ableton would incorporate tabbed projects when they already have their own system of being able to drag Live assets in from the browser.
ImageImage

Machinesworking
Posts: 11131
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Machinesworking » Fri May 09, 2014 1:45 pm

shadx312 wrote:Which means that live still has the advantage if you want to play multiple sets seamlessly; at least the closest; because you'd have to combine multiple sets into one if you don't want any music to stop. I don't see why Ableton would incorporate tabbed projects when they already have their own system of being able to drag Live assets in from the browser.
Nope, Bitwig definitely in this case. Each instance is already loaded in a tab, the load time is really only with the initial load of all instances to make a set.
Turning the engine on and off is pretty instant. Haven't played with large Kontakt libraries though, but definitely it's much quicker to loaded a tabbed set in Bitwig than to load an entire new set in Live.

Angstrom
Posts: 14722
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Angstrom » Fri May 09, 2014 1:53 pm

shadx312 wrote:Which means that live still has the advantage if you want to play multiple sets seamlessly; at least the closest; because you'd have to combine multiple sets into one if you don't want any music to stop. I don't see why Ableton would incorporate tabbed projects when they already have their own system of being able to drag Live assets in from the browser.
If Ableton want to continue with the system of allowing users to contiguously load set chunks *(songlets?) from the browser, then they need to really step up with the functionality of it. I love LiveClips, but using that system will give you a heart attack if you are dragging in whole sets into other sets. There are many issues, including how the sets integrate return channels. It's hardly coherent.

Once again I'd suggest Ableton look at AfterEffects, which allows compositions to contain compositions to contain compositions. Imagine the Session View, and imagine that you can click on every clip, and inside that is another session view!

The benefit of such a seemingly mind boggling system is the ability to containerise and manage sub-song, and multi-song groupings. You could manage,arrange,load/unload all your sets and sections of songs ... all within the current audiostream/engine.

This means : No requirement to stop the set, no "tabs", and no real change to the interface which customers are used to. It would require a decent hierarchy inspector though.

regretfullySaid
Posts: 8913
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri May 09, 2014 2:13 pm

The requirement for some preparation in dragging other sets was insinuated, but there are plenty of caveats for sure, as you said; not to mention what's set up in the arrangement (actually, there is a 'last event' notification in the API that tells where the last whatever (clip,automation, etc) is in the Arrangement, which means that it might not be so hard to automatically shift whatever other set that has Arrangement elements to the end of the current Arrangement, avoiding overlap).

The Sends issue is the biggest concern though.

You always seem to have some well thought out solutions so whatever it is you come up with I'm sure to support.
ImageImage

Angstrom
Posts: 14722
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Angstrom » Fri May 09, 2014 4:29 pm

shadx312 wrote:
You always seem to have some well thought out solutions so whatever it is you come up with I'm sure to support.
I'm pretty sure the spec team would strongly disagree with you on that point ;)

Post Reply