Ableton Forum

Looks like they are starting another internal 'beta' test for 1.1:
among (a lot of) other things:
devices: de-esser, multiband fx-3, note mod, note receiver, audio receiver..
vst plugins: output effect chains, side-chaining, routing for multi-timbral, multi-out plugins, and more..
other: improved sound quality and timing, grain size parameter, transient preservation mode, vastly improved track routing, tracks/chains/devices can be decativated (and for tracks, hidden), tap tempo, track crossfader, and more..
controller scripting: the list of improvements and additions are enormous..

So at least they are adding lives routing abilities, though you still cant break out multiple midi channels according to one tester. Maybe it will be released just in time for their sale in october, then a further drop around christmas for 1.2 when they get track folder support

I hope the great bitwig sale people keep referring to is a big deal. I'd hate for it to be a let-down

mholloway wrote:bitwig!? man, I just want to know when they are finally gonna release the damn thing!

No reason to move, all DAW's have their pros and cons, not sure why I would bother learning the ins and outs of another DAW when I have been using Live for the last 5 years.

Anyone compared the performance of Bitwig with Live ?
Especially at higher load and low buffer rates.
Can you drive Bitwig upto 80% load at 256samples Buffer without dropouts or artifacts ?

ansolas wrote:Anyone compared the performance of Bitwig with Live ?
Especially at higher load and low buffer rates.
Can you drive Bitwig upto 80% load at 256samples Buffer without dropouts or artifacts ?

Bitwig uses far more CPU is a big complain at their forum.

^ do they have a forum now, or are they still piggy backing off KVR?

also, even if the resources weren't in question the tools to measure them would be. i don't think using Live's built in CPU meter is anything to base a definitive judgement on. the thing lies like it was built for politics.

ansolas wrote:Anyone compared the performance of Bitwig with Live ?
Especially at higher load and low buffer rates.
Can you drive Bitwig upto 80% load at 256samples Buffer without dropouts or artifacts ?

I find them pretty much identical in terms of CPU usage.

also if you really want it you can get it on jrrshop for 254$ until ~jan. Still need more play time on the demo for me, even at 250 after using the demo some more last night still not really tempted, maybe once it hits 200$ ill more seriously consider it

For me the one thing that really holds it back is a lack of integration with other DAWs and hardware synths.
They released it without any control surface support for Novation among other devices, without any Rewire capabilities, no SysEx, and if I recall correctly there was not even MIDI Beat Clock support at first....

It might be a great piece of software, but it will not play with Live or Digital Performer. and I don't recall it having any video support at all? So with that in mind how would it fit into my workflow? The answer is not at all really. Live ReWires into DP, which has SysEx, and really really great film scoring support, so Bitwig for me, and a lot of users who work in more than one DAW would be a step backwards. This is the biggest WTF? in my opinion about their whole approach: take on a flooded market and expect users to drop their old DAWs or for new users to use their DAW over the others.

Even for a transition over to a new DAW, rewire is a good thing, and I foolishly thought that Bitwig developers would include a super charged version of ReWire. One where you could host VSTs in slave mode for instance...

ansolas wrote:Anyone compared the performance of Bitwig with Live ?
Especially at higher load and low buffer rates.
Can you drive Bitwig upto 80% load at 256samples Buffer without dropouts or artifacts ?

I'm in the middle of demoing it now and the cpu meter doesn't seem to be an issue here. I run at a 64 buffer at 48k. The only plugin I've found that doesn't work is stylus RMX, crashes in the sandbox.

However, though there are many killer things about bitwig, it leaves a lot to be desired. Not sure if 1.1beta whatever is going to be THAT much better.

eyeknow wrote:

ansolas wrote:Anyone compared the performance of Bitwig with Live ?
Especially at higher load and low buffer rates.
Can you drive Bitwig upto 80% load at 256samples Buffer without dropouts or artifacts ?

I'm in the middle of demoing it now and the cpu meter doesn't seem to be an issue here. I run at a 64 buffer at 48k. The only plugin I've found that doesn't work is stylus RMX, crashes in the sandbox.

However, though there are many killer things about bitwig, it leaves a lot to be desired. Not sure if 1.1beta whatever is going to be THAT much better.

It really is, it's now got all the same (and more) midi + audio routing that Live has.

Ok, let me give you my issues. Mind you this can all be worked around, but it's a pita.

-no count-in for clip recording and no pre-defined clip lengths. NOT in 1.1 yet
-issues with recording midi loops, including missing the first note on the looparound (a problem common to EVERY host other than live) and not playing some or all of the passage when in record on the looparound.
-no way to scroll/increment through values other than either double clicking with a number (not horrible) or using superman mousing skills (impossible). Should be, if you hit a value into let's say, what you want your loop points to be, you should be able to access with the arrow keys. Seems like there are sometimes you can do this, but not most.
-When recording clips, not "tight" and requires a pass through to get synced properly.

I can't remember any more right now, but these puzzle me.

All in all though it's not bad. Might even buy it for the creative things. Some of the FX are STELLAR, including their polysynth. I'm not a big fan of studio ones for the most part (like, their chorus is just awful for example) and live's are ok but seem a bit bland at times.

Hosts.......so frustrating.

Btw, some of the things that are awesome include the way you can manipulate audio. Wanna add a reversed crash in the middle of a guitar solo? No problem Also, taking a guitar part and mangling it is something to behold. I don't remember ever being able to do that with a host before.

Oh, and it does a nice job of handling push. A few niggles, nothing major.

I watched some videos and played with it the last few weeks. Wow. I like the freshness of the sound and the way it looks and many aspects of the functionality. In Ableton, I spend half the time clicking to get the midi editor out of the way etc., but in Bitwig, everything about the interface just feels right and natural and appealing. The one problem is that I have maybe 1,000 projects in Ableton, so that makes it hard to switch. I'm surprised at how powerful that factor is. It show's the effectiveness of being an established product. Also, there's the issue of education. Stuff that I know how to instantly do in Ableton takes a few moments to a few hours to figure out in Bitwig - just because I started with Ableton before Bitwig.

But if I was just starting out, and had a long-term plan, I would definitely go with Bitwig. That's for two reasons: 1. the looks and smooth interface, 2. the freshness of the sound.

Just my opinion.

EDIT: If I could do a training course to master Bitwig and transition from Ableton in two weeks, I would do it. (But Ableton is still great!)