The Great BitWig Migration

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

Will you leave Ableton for BitWig?

Nope, I'm staying right here.
216
50%
Yes, I'll be part of the great BitWig migration.
52
12%
Too soon to call, I'll wait and see.
120
28%
I intend to use both
44
10%
 
Total votes: 432

ansolas
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 pm
Location: Earth ~ Europe ~ Germany ~ Cuxheaven

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by ansolas » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:54 pm

I also tried it, the sound is very nice and the GUI is much more responsive than in Live and I also noticed that I get a lot less clicks than in Live.

Only downside for me at the moment is that Push isnt that good supported ... yet

Amebastudio
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:24 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by Amebastudio » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:46 am

About CPU issues in Ableton:

i just recently noticed that there seems to be something wrong in Ableton legacy code that has to do with large sets that use lots of clips with automation inside along many scenes. I ask you guys to please do this simple test.


1) Create a midi track with a drum rack and add an effect.

2) Then create a 2 bar midi clip, make a simple beat and add a couple of automations to it (32 automations should be enough)

3) Now, duplicate that same clip for 300 times along the scenes (after 150 you'll begin to notice it)

4) Last, play any clip and start to mess with the knobs on that track (fx, sends, whatever)

5) You'll notice that Ableton starts to lag and freeze everytime you move a parameter in that particular track.

Also if you try to record a new clip you'll notice that ableton will freeze for a short second before starting to record and also after you stop the clip, making it impossible to create loops on the fly as supposed to.

I made a screen capture video showing this problem happening. Also I compared it to Bitwig with the same liveset settings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew6z-qo ... oGU7-oQvbT

I understand that there has to be a limit to the number of scenes, but that limit should be defined by the cpu, disk and ram. If you test for yourself with this same example you'll see that cpu is around a maximum of 2-5%, so this doesn't make any sense.

In a second test I did a couple minutes ago in Bitwig, I had a midi clip with 64 automations on it, duplicated along for 2000 scenes and running without any lag.

Please try doing this test so that more people start to talk about this and eventually Ableton will solve it.

login
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by login » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:25 am

Amebastudio wrote:About CPU issues in Ableton:

i just recently noticed that there seems to be something wrong in Ableton legacy code that has to do with large sets that use lots of clips with automation inside along many scenes. I ask you guys to please do this simple test.


1) Create a midi track with a drum rack and add an effect.

2) Then create a 2 bar midi clip, make a simple beat and add a couple of automations to it (32 automations should be enough)

3) Now, duplicate that same clip for 300 times along the scenes (after 150 you'll begin to notice it)

4) Last, play any clip and start to mess with the knobs on that track (fx, sends, whatever)

5) You'll notice that Ableton starts to lag and freeze everytime you move a parameter in that particular track.

Also if you try to record a new clip you'll notice that ableton will freeze for a short second before starting to record and also after you stop the clip, making it impossible to create loops on the fly as supposed to.

I made a screen capture video showing this problem happening. Also I compared it to Bitwig with the same liveset settings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew6z-qo ... oGU7-oQvbT

I understand that there has to be a limit to the number of scenes, but that limit should be defined by the cpu, disk and ram. If you test for yourself with this same example you'll see that cpu is around a maximum of 2-5%, so this doesn't make any sense.

In a second test I did a couple minutes ago in Bitwig, I had a midi clip with 64 automations on it, duplicated along for 2000 scenes and running without any lag.

Please try doing this test so that more people start to talk about this and eventually Ableton will solve it.
And you contacted support already?

H20nly
Posts: 15836
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by H20nly » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:17 am

:|

sdfak1234
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:40 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by sdfak1234 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:22 am

I have been quite vocal on the Ableton vs Bitwig debate. In the early days I was arguing with people about whether Bitwig even existed, clearly it does, I've been using for a while.... TBH it's biggest problem right now is bugs, the CPU spikes are bugs, and in a weird way they're adding new features like touch, and apparently cozying up to Microsoft with Surface rather than concentrating on those bugs... the app itself when it works it pretty awesome, it definitely has some workflow things that Ableton should have, it's also got a modern feel, I still think that it will become a well rounded product in years to come....but I can't use it for real work yet because the bugs are too intermittent, and each release suffers from regressions which is a shame... other than that, I don't like their timestretching, Ableton's is better especially with their recent releases, and I think the built in modules in Bitwig are not high quality enough..... crashing and workflow killing bugs tho, big problem. I do open it up almost every day and it's fun to use in a similar fashion to Live.

In regards to Ableton, I was furious about Live9, and I stand by that, to me that was a sloppy release, and I think based on what we've heard later from Ableton, apparently 10 is where the big stuff is coming... 9.2 on the otherhand started getting things right, they fixed automation PDC which was huge, and through to 9.5 they've tightened up timing and improved sound quality in various areas.... finally I bought a Push2 and I love it, kinda makes the Push 1 look poor, and I'm excited to see what future updates bring to that device with it's full color screen.... I suspect Live 10 may get even more cool Push features. I really like how Ableton focused on making things more intuitive.

Overall tho, I think the Bitwig competition has been a great thing, people are stepping up rapidly and for the first time in a very long time, I have no complaints with Live9.5 especially with Push2, everything does what I need it to, but if they hadn't added automation compensation, I'd probably be using Bitwig or Cubase.

evon
Posts: 1058
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:44 pm
Location: Jamrock

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by evon » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:08 pm

Tried it, sounds good. Seems to be cross between cubase and live. Sounds vibrant as cubase and ease of use as with live.

Took me just about two days to feel comfortable working in it.
However, live is still my drug of choice and I remain hooked on live no matter how many other DAWs I try out.
fe real!

pinkpaint
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:14 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by pinkpaint » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:03 am

on my mac i bring my computer to its knees easily in bitwig.. no track freeze and constantly running into bugs.. audio drop outs on a 12 physical core machine when cpu isn't even maxed... usually has to do with a bitwig audio effect etc the delay 2 when used for a haas effect can phase cancel out the audio when using common haas technique parameters.

the whole modulation thing of bitwig is amazing.. but imo by the time they make everything solid and well rounded we will have a serious battle between Bitwig 2.0 and AbleTEN (spelled it weird, for the slow ones, Live 10).

pinkpaint
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:14 am

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by pinkpaint » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:08 am

login wrote:
And you contacted support already?
i have contacted support about a similar issue, and many others have as well, Live GUI with slow response in heavy sessions even tho cpu isn't being brought to its knees is something the devs know about, through support tickets alone with me I can confirm this.

kitekrazy
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: The Great BitWig Migration

Post by kitekrazy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:12 am

I don't need another DAW to learn. I'm not a Live fanboy but it's probably my #2 choice. Before I ever bought Live I thought the session view was one of the dumbest things on a DAW but I mess with it more than anything.

I hope Bitwig does well because that forces all of the other DAW developers to compete. The Live 9.5 update is awesome.

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