Ableton Live 10

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
SuburbanThug
Posts: 1478
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:22 am
Contact:

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by SuburbanThug » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:44 pm

1. Another one here for a pop out midi editor. Would be so much nicer than the cramped up situation we've got going now.

2. Stability from day one or at least month six.

3. PDC, VST3 support. (That's the basic shit.)

4. Note auditioning in Push's step sequencer. Option for rotaries to be precise. (More basic shit.)

Hell, this ain't even a wishlist. More like a list of demands! :lol:

BoddAH
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by BoddAH » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:00 pm

For the wow factor I wonder if we’ll get an iPad companion a la GarageBand/Logic.

I mean, Live is all about live performance. Apps like Lemur and Touchable have already shown what would be possible (with inherent limitations due to being third-party apps) and Ableton also have experience in integration with external hardware as shown by Push.
Hands-on native touch control of Live’s instruments, effects, and mixer not to mention the clip matrix would be pretty nice.

Of any serious DAW I can think of, Live is the only one that wouldn’t feel awkward or gimped by being 100 percent touch based due to the workflow and single-window interface. Maybe it would even be better. 8O

Just imagine working with a full, if slightly modified, version of Live on your iPad. With all the native instruments and effects and VST-like support of CoreAudio iOS Synths and Effects Apps. Imagine plugging a fucking Ableton Push to your iPad for a full, portable setup, playing away on your Push’s pads and simultaneously launching clips from your tablet or vice-versa at the push of a button. :oops:

re:dream
Posts: 4554
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Contact:

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by re:dream » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:31 pm

I can't imagine anything worse. Give up the processing power of my MBP for an Ipad? It's great to play solitaire on, but I don't see it having the speed and reliability required for serious audio.

BoddAH
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by BoddAH » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:48 pm

re:dream wrote:I can't imagine anything worse. Give up the processing power of my MBP for an Ipad? It's great to play solitaire on, but I don't see it having the speed and reliability required for serious audio.
Just as an example, the A8X Chip on the iPad Air 2 is tri-core processor clocked at 1,5 GHz. Android based tablets offer similar if not better specs. While high-end laptop x86 CPUs are still generally faster (not even that much), tablets are quickly catching up.

Add to that the fact that software and OSs for this newer generation of ARM and similar based architectures are much better optimized and that everybody is heavily investing in tablet R&D, and you’ve got yourself the perfect recipe for traditional desktop and notebook architecture being obsolete in a couple of years.

iPads are already perfectly compatible with the best audio interfaces currently on the market and have a large and steadily growing catalogue of high-quality synths and effects that have nothing to envy their VST counterparts.

But that’s beside the point anyway. Nobody would force anyone to stop using his laptop or desktop PC. The iOS and/or Android version would simply come in addition to the Mac OS/Windows version.

grpetz
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:39 pm

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by grpetz » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:33 am

VST3 compatibility and the option for others to create their own themes like Reaper DAW. Ableton is very powerful, but I simply wish it had better visual eye features that were not so "flat".

Keep up the great work Ableton! Appreciate the hard efforts at coding the software.

Gary

mekanism1200
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:25 pm

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by mekanism1200 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:58 pm

Open the API for ALS files to allow third party programs to offer ALS export files similar to how Gadget does it. We could then use other programs on any platform, mobile or otherwise for importing into Ableton.

A simpler way to convert a fully layered midi drum set into individual audio tracks would be nice. Maybe a split midi function that dumps each drum track into their own midi or audio track would be nice.

And as others have mentioned a bounce to audio function that creates a new audio track. I know its easy to duplicate/freeze/flatten, but this gets tedious if you are converting many midi tracks to audio.

Please for the love of god make the fonts larger/easier to read in the preferences menus and make the adjustments seprate from the other font settings.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:46 pm

mekanism1200 wrote: A simpler way to convert a fully layered midi drum set into individual audio tracks would be nice. Maybe a split midi function that dumps each drum track into their own midi or audio track would be nice.
Especially as this functionality is already in place when you extract rack chains. That you cannot do it otherwise is kinda strange to omit.
Make some music!

alltomorrowsparties
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:52 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by alltomorrowsparties » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:44 pm

Dunno if this has been mentioned already (i'm not reading 9 pages)

Audio-and-MIDI Take management. (ie nested tracks for each pass)

and...

Take Editing like logic's quickswipe.

Those two features would make me very happy indeed.

tecolo
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by tecolo » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:28 pm

tecolo wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:-Make the second window an actual second window, were doing something in one does not limit what you see/can do in the other. So manipulating and seeing two tracks at the same time stops being an issue.
-Untie Pushs selection from the selection in Live and/or let Push only influence one of the windows mentioned above.
-I tried out Bitwig and I really like the modulation which crosses different devices and is visible on the affected parameter. Also the x/y tool is awesome. Copy the shit out if these ones :mrgreen:

This just from the top of my head....
this +1

and this:

Image

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=199283&p=1566128&hi ... e#p1566128
+ 10 000

airloop
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:38 pm

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by airloop » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:56 pm

Of course, I would love new functions like DNA, multiple audio sections in clips, audio & midi comping, vst3 & per note automation, time stretching in simpler & sampler, etc... but I will be said that it's not in Live's philosophy, or that Ableton makes things later than its competitors but makes it better, etc... Ok, that's often true and I will trust the future but there is things you do worst, really worst and this is my list:

> Third party plugin implementation

>>>> I can't understand why VST & AU implementation are so different:

> For AU: I can't access presets from a list in AU plugins like I do in vst. You will say to me, "go to plugin folders and open the automatic folder created with the plugin" or "use the hotswap function" but:
- It's not ergonomic in all cases. Some famous plugins like Brainworks and many freewares don't implement internal preset management and a standard way to access presets is sometimes easier than using hotswap function. Don't say me you're not agree, if it was the case, you wouldn't have implement it for vsts ;)
- Most of the time, the presets doesn't appear (but appears for vsts).
- If I save my presets in a personal folder, hotswap will go back to this folder and i will have to manually find the original presets in plug-ins folder.
I think the presets should be accessed in the same way as there are in vst, and should include subfolders.
> For VST: Why do I need to put them in a rack to store them in different place ? Nonsense... Just break this limitation and I will be happy.

>>>> SideChain Input

Why do I need to create a new track in order to connect my third-party side chain inputs ? really not ergonomic... a triangle icon button with sidechain input settings (like you do with native plugins) should be logical. And to make it better than competitors, add as many side-chain settings than plug-in side chain inputs.

>>>> Midi plugins

Why do I need to create a new track to add a third-party midi plug-in ? really not ergonomic... I should add a midi plugin like i do with audio plugin: In the track itself.

>>>> Crash protection

Ok, only Bitwig do that but for a live oriented daw, it wouldn't be luxury.

>>>> Sysex Messages

Why are you filtering Sysex Messages ? If I want to record or send sysex message, what is the problem ? I ask you that because there is no technical complexity or time consuming task, it's your choice and I can't understand it. Security ? Add a checkbox in preferences panel or in options.txt and let the users assume what they do.

>>>> Reverse function in simpler and time stretch in simpler & sampler

In this case, it's not something you do worst. Simpler and sampler are the perfect example of how you can be clever when we are talking about daw integration. But Time Stretch is the specialty of Lives and was implemented a long time ago in impulse, why not in simpler and sampler ?

All what I notice not seems to be technically complex and is not relative to a specific workflow, it's just logical and clever integration of functions. Live is known for being one of the best in this category.

Of course, I love Live and I'm not waiting for answers to my questions, it's just my way to expose my wishes and to explain why I have this wishes :)

login
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by login » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:46 pm

airloop wrote: > Third party plugin implementation

>>>> I can't understand why VST & AU implementation are so different:

> For AU: I can't access presets from a list in AU plugins like I do in vst. You will say to me, "go to plugin folders and open the automatic folder created with the plugin" or "use the hotswap function" but:
- It's not ergonomic in all cases. Some famous plugins like Brainworks and many freewares don't implement internal preset management and a standard way to access presets is sometimes easier than using hotswap function. Don't say me you're not agree, if it was the case, you wouldn't have implement it for vsts ;)
- Most of the time, the presets doesn't appear (but appears for vsts).
- If I save my presets in a personal folder, hotswap will go back to this folder and i will have to manually find the original presets in plug-ins folder.
I think the presets should be accessed in the same way as there are in vst, and should include subfolders.
> For VST: Why do I need to put them in a rack to store them in different place ? Nonsense... Just break this limitation and I will be happy.

>>>> SideChain Input

Why do I need to create a new track in order to connect my third-party side chain inputs ? really not ergonomic... a triangle icon button with sidechain input settings (like you do with native plugins) should be logical. And to make it better than competitors, add as many side-chain settings than plug-in side chain inputs.

Both of those, specially the first doesn't depend on Live (all vst host work like this) but on how VSTs are designed.

As for the sidechain in was implemented in VSt3, still not supported in Live and by many plug in developers. Maybe they are waiting for VST4 which will solve issues with both VST2.4 and VST3 (which hasnt been widely adopted)

I agree with you in the rest specially in the features for sampler.

airloop
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:38 pm

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by airloop » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:00 pm

login wrote: Both of those, specially the first doesn't depend on Live (all vst host work like this) but on how VSTs are designed.
Concerning the preset list:
Live can access the preset list of an AU plugin, thats what it does when it creates an automatic folder in the Plug-Ins folder. So concerning the preset list in the device itself, AU and VST should be able to act in a similar fashion. Ableton has made the choice of "hotswap" only for AU plugs, but i'm sure it wasn't an obligation.

Concerning the need of inserting a vst in a rack in order to save it directly in a folder, it works if we put it in a rack. So I think it musn't be a very long and difficult task to do the work in background: Saving the preset on drag & drop with their rack technique and deleting this process on load, loading only the vst with its previous settings. We don't need to know what happens behind, it's a common technique in dev and it is a speciality of Live to understand by advance what we want to do and to hide us the process !
login wrote: As for the sidechain in was implemented in VSt3, still not supported in Live and by many plug in developers. Maybe they are waiting for VST4 which will solve issues with both VST2.4 and VST3 (which hasnt been widely adopted)
I didn't knew for vst, you learn me something :) but in AU it works ! And Logic has implemented a standard side chain input selection, whatever the plug is native or not, since a long time.
login wrote: I agree with you in the rest specially in the features for sampler.
Simpler and sampler, in the way they are implemented in Live are not devices likes other. No third party plug can replace them. Each improvement will be a very good news !

Thanks for your answer

login
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by login » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:24 pm

airloop wrote: Concerning the preset list:
Live can access the preset list of an AU plugin, thats what it does when it creates an automatic folder in the Plug-Ins folder. So concerning the preset list in the device itself, AU and VST should be able to act in a similar fashion. Ableton has made the choice of "hotswap" only for AU plugs, but i'm sure it wasn't an obligation.
My point is that this is not posible, no VST host does this AFAIK. Its a limitation of the VST specification. In part because there are different ways in which presets can be set up inside a VST.

For example you can notice that native Instruments VSts when used in Live show the name of the preset on the device view, some other plug ins
don't.

The company that is responsible for this is Steinberg, I hope they develop a new VST specification (VST4) that adresses this and other limitations.

airloop
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:38 pm

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by airloop » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:31 pm

login wrote: My point is that this is not posible, no VST host does this AFAIK. Its a limitation of the VST specification. In part because there are different ways in which presets can be set up inside a VST.

For example you can notice that native Instruments VSts when used in Live show the name of the preset on the device view, some other plug ins
don't.

The company that is responsible for this is Steinberg, I hope they develop a new VST specification (VST4) that adresses this and other limitations.
I think I understand what you mean but I'm not so hard to please ! I know sometimes it's impossible to find a preset list, and that this list may (and will in most cases) be different between AU and VST version, depending on how and if each editor has implemented the plug-in format specifications concerning preset management. And, more important, my idea is not to consider AU and VST plug-ins as if they were the same, just to have the same approach in their integration when possible.

It's my fault, I am too complicated, I should just expose my wishes about this question and it will be more clear:
1 - In AU plug-in devices, I would like a scrolling list of presets in the device itself, as it is the case today with vst (without forgetting the subfolders). This list comes from the standard presets folder you find in macos library. Live already use it, but I have to go to the "Plug-ins" section, find the plug, etc...
2 - I would like that the vst presets could be managed as there are with native devices and AU plug-ins, taking advantage of the hotswap function. It can be done grouping them in a Live rack, but it's not a "clean" solution for me (in my mind, faking the rack process like i have imagined in my previous post seems to be very realistic solution, but i can be wrong).

If my two wishes are heard, I should consider that the integration of third party plug-ins would be really coherent. And as a mac user using AU plug-ins in most cases, the point 1 alone would be enough for me.

Thanks again to your answers, i'm not sure Ableton will hear me but you do ;)

Tagor
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:18 am

Re: Ableton Live 10

Post by Tagor » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:26 am

when will it happen ?

end of 2016 ? i think it would be good to take the time and maybe they throw push II at the market
together with ableTEN.

Post Reply