The Bitwig evaluation thread

[regretfullySaid]

Real people ship? If I don't ship then I am not a real person?

[cstump]

I'm sensing a little KVR hate going on here, well maybe not hate but frustration. Bitwig(and all DAW's for that matter) gets equal treatment there, in other words the crap spewed pro and con crosses the line on a day to day basis. Misinformation is handled pretty quick and arguments are never settled. It's definitely neutral ground in my opinion.

This is a company sponsored forum so it's to be expected that Ableton's Live is going to be favored more than anything else, it also is a relevant place to compare Live and Bitwig against what is there or what isn't. To me that means things may happen for the better sooner rather than Ableton sitting on their laurels.

[siliconarc]

To me that means things may happen for the better sooner rather than Ableton sitting on their laurels.

sheeyert... ableton have been sat on their laurels so long they have bedsores.

[regretfullySaid]

When it comes to Bitwig vs Ableton I have a feeling there's a 100x more drama with insecure users than there is between the actual Bitwig and Ableton employees.

If the daw you use, no matter how much you love it, is linked to your identity so much that you have to staunchly go on the offensive/defensive then maybe there's some soul searching to be had.

[cstump]

When it comes to Bitwig vs Ableton I have a feeling there's a 100x more drama with insecure users than there is between the actual Bitwig and Ableton employees.

If the daw you use, no matter how much you love it, is linked to your identity so much that you have to staunchly go on the offensive/defensive then maybe there's some soul searching to be had.

Sport team's come to mind... could you imagine if the employees put on a jersey and battle it out on the field... Nerd bowl.

[Nick the Zombie]

I've spent a few hours with the manual and Bitwig, and I've come away feeling pretty great about it. My workflow is heavily based in resampling, something that you can accomplish far faster in Bitwig thanks to the elegant "bounce in place" operation. You can even create a clip on the master track and bounce it so that you can combine multiple tracks worth of audio into one clip, effectively giving you a way around having to do either:

a) a realtime resample
or
b) having to export the portion of the project and then reimport it into its own track

Both of those methods are major time wasters for me when I'm in the process of making a soundscape or song, so my "quality of life" is already vastly improved in Bitwig.

Additionally, the sound design options are really sophisticated even in version 1. For instance, being able to easily insert custom effects chains directly into the feedback path of a delay now means I get access to a slew of new sounds that would have been a pain to put together in other software.

The modulation is also vastly superior for the kind of sounds that I create. Being able to quickly assign one modulator to a number of different destinations and in different amounts (similar to Massive) is a breath of fresh air.

The synths, sampler and effects all sound great and different from what I'm used to in Live, so that's fun, too.

All that being said, Bitwig is still in version 1 so there are TONS of little bugs that can get in the way. I'm still blown away at just how stable this version 1 software is compared to some of the abortions I've witnessed in the past. A very good sign of things to come.

The resampling-friendly workflow alone will have me adopting Bitwig as my primary sketchpad once it's a little more mature in a few versions. I still love Live, though, and look forward to using both for their relative strengths.

[regretfullySaid]

My workflow is heavily based in resampling, something that you can accomplish far faster in Bitwig thanks to the elegant "bounce in place" operation. You can even create a clip on the master track and bounce it as well, effectively giving you a way around having to do either:

a) a realtime resample
or
b) having to export the portion of the project and then reimport it into its own track

Both of those methods are major time wasters for me...
The resampling-friendly workflow alone will have me adopting Bitwig as my primary sketchpad once it's a little more mature in a few versions. I still love Live, though, and look forward to using both for their relative strengths.

Yup. The quickest you can get resampling from live is recording from another track, bouncing the whole track, or exporting the track, and then you have to navigate to the folder your export is in and drag it back in. Bleh.

The nice thing with even the BW demo is that it saves your recorded material (like Live does with Temp folders for unsaved 'Untitled' sets) so you can still do a bunch of 'cuts' and then drag those into Live.

That's where the clip editing comes in handy, being able to mince and mingle different audio files in one clip and then bounce it quickly. It's faster and more fun to do in BW and bouncing in place cuts down on A LOT of time.

I'm going to see how well ReaRoute works as an ASIO driver to see how well they both play together in realtime.

[Nick the Zombie]

That's where the clip editing comes in handy, being able to mince and mingle different audio files in one clip and then bounce it quickly. It's faster and more fun to do in BW and bouncing in place cuts down on A LOT of time.

That's another thing I forgot to mention. The editing in audio clips is absolutely killer in Bitwig. That, combined with the resampling/bounce in place stuff, was previously a dream for me in terms of music software. Very happy over here.

[TTOZ]

Look, i waited like everyone else, and was semi excited about bitshit, and if i thought it was at least decent intuitive software with even the most basic features, i would be following it closely and hoping the best for it and that it became a real contender. But instead we get half baked mega delayed release from devs with major attitude. I really hope ableton does crush them. Mince.

Where are you getting that? They seem cut from the same cloth of cool european developer guys that Ableton is to me?

look there are lots of reasons to not like Bitwig compared to Live:
No user assignable Clip firing.
Even worse CPU piggishness than Live.
No grouping.
No ReWire
No REX, .caf, or sd2 audio file Support.

Things that would be arguably better than Live and were talked about:
No modular environment yet.
No user assignable keyboard shortcuts.
Networking etc.

I just don't see the point of all the internet anger about it taking them years to build a DAW and it being a 1.0 release still?
Maybe I just think both those things are pretty normal? Because they built, (and to a large degree the internet built on it's own), major hype around it isn't any reason to expect it to be MASSIVELY better than any other DAW.

What happens to your anger if Bitwig manage to do PDC perfectly and Ableton still have the same issue with it?
Knowing you you'll turn around and trash Ableton and swear loyalty to Bitwig!
Don't even try to deny it, you switch between Logic and Cubase on a yearly basis! and there was the whole Reason 7 fiasco!

But yeah, I'm a bit disappointed too! I expected better CPU performance, not worse, but it is what it is. For some the multiple Projects, plug in sandboxing, LFO, and different look and feel will be enough, me? I want ReWire and more than just half the CPU performance of Digital Performer.

You have no idea what you are talking about re my host usage. Please don't lie about me. I have made it clear before that the switch to reason was when i was VERY ILL and confined to a bed and i was looking for something that had lots of built in mouse and click sequencers as I didn't have ability to play on a midi keyboard like I had always done with Logic. The limitations of the program eventually wore me out, but I would still say Reason is miles ahead of bitwig.

I have never sworn loyalty to ableton as i have never used it as a main host. Bitwig would have to change about 500 things for me to even consider it, so i can't see that happening.

Changing between Logic and Cubase every year? what are you on.. can i have some? Such a distorted view of life must be fun in some ways.. I used Cubase from 2005-2008 on windows after using only logic from 1997-2005. Apple stopped the win version in 2001, and i used it for as long as I could before new plugins started having issues with it. I liked Cubase but i simply never felt as comfy with it as Logic which is why i went to mac June 2008 and never looked back. Recently I bought Cubase 7 and run it occasionally for a change.. most everything is still done on Logic X with Live rewired into it.

Don't know how it's any of your business or why you are trying to start personal attacks here.. Yes i got a bit nasty about bitwig but it was on topic as bitwig is what we are discussing.. not my past history or software usage which is of zero relevance. You added nothing to the discussion other than trolling and trying to pick a fight.

[yur2die4]

Which one will have iphone support first?
(Very deliberately doing an obnoxious off topic feature chime-in and pretending to act resentful about it . Plus awaiting an android user to come in and complain that iPhones get all the fun)

[eyeknow]

When it comes to Bitwig vs Ableton I have a feeling there's a 100x more drama with insecure users than there is between the actual Bitwig and Ableton employees.

If the daw you use, no matter how much you love it, is linked to your identity so much that you have to staunchly go on the offensive/defensive then maybe there's some soul searching to be had.

Sport team's come to mind... could you imagine if the employees put on a jersey and battle it out on the field... Nerd bowl.

I don't know about that. I think it's a pretty complex set of variables not the least of which is that it's the closest thing to "direct" competition. Throw in some hyperbole, the length of time, different personalities and a long list of other things and you get bitwig.

It's a phenomenon! I've tried to wean myself back from these threads but I'm having no luck. There is just too much entertainment in them.

[deva]

Did they add all of these basic missing features too?

It's only Wednesday morning. I would guess they've spent such a long time honing a framework, so that those pretty simple organizational tweaks can be easily added. Then again, the cynic in me thinks they actually released a 2012 build, and are now just drip-feeding fixes and updates From a remote location in the Pacific. Sipping on cocktails at the beach, lolling at KVR.

I sure hope so...

[deva]

No. PDC is fixed and works fine. That's all.

Good! Did they add all of these basic missing features too?

1. Track Folders
2. Input Quantize
3. Hot swapping for drum rack pads
4. More flexible midi routing
5. Better vertical track zooming
6. "Snap to zero crossing" in the drum machine's sample editor
7. Groove extraction and groove quantize
8. More than one color scheme for GUI
9. Mutiple output support for vst's, and
10. A crossfader

Before they do all that, I think a generic controller script that recognizes midi CC data would be in order.

[Machinesworking]

Changing between Logic and Cubase every year? what are you on.. can i have some? Such a distorted view of life must be fun in some ways.. I used Cubase from 2005-2008 on windows after using only logic from 1997-2005. Apple stopped the win version in 2001, and i used it for as long as I could before new plugins started having issues with it. I liked Cubase but i simply never felt as comfy with it as Logic which is why i went to mac June 2008 and never looked back. Recently I bought Cubase 7 and run it occasionally for a change.. most everything is still done on Logic X with Live rewired into it.

Don't know how it's any of your business or why you are trying to start personal attacks here.. Yes i got a bit nasty about bitwig but it was on topic as bitwig is what we are discussing.. not my past history or software usage which is of zero relevance. You added nothing to the discussion other than trolling and trying to pick a fight.

Absolutely not trying to pick a fight, but it's not like you're not well known for swearing loyalty and talking mass shit about the DAW you used the month before, you've done it every time a major bug has hindered your workflow, whether it be plug ins in Reason being CPU pigs, or Logic changing the GUI to something you don't like. I've been in conversations with you on KVR for years now, it's not like it isn't a well known trait of yours. You're always over the top for or against a DAW or plug in manufacturer. Me pointing that out isn't as much knocking your critique, as lessoning the whole utter outrage! thing.

You can take offense to it all you want, it doesn't change the facts.
And it doesn't make your opinion less valid, probably more.

[kitekrazy]

When it comes to Bitwig vs Ableton I have a feeling there's a 100x more drama with insecure users than there is between the actual Bitwig and Ableton employees.

If the daw you use, no matter how much you love it, is linked to your identity so much that you have to staunchly go on the offensive/defensive then maybe there's some soul searching to be had.

People treat DAWs as if they were religions.