Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Kibosh
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by Kibosh » Tue May 06, 2014 5:24 pm

I might be a little late posting here, but I own also the TB-3. Luckily I thought let's try that one first before buying the TR-8 because also for me having the option to send the audio directly inside the DAW sounded perfect.

But as you all know already there are some problems with that:

Ableton Live can only work with only one audio interface as probably also other DAW's. MAC users can create an aggregate device but could end up with syncing (clock) issues. I'm not sure because I work on Windows 7. So with Windows, we sadly don't have that option. There is however the new WDM/KS windows drivers, that apparantly is Microsoft's answer for ASIO but I only find very little about it.

Another point is, that off course your audio interface must have a WDM/KS driver, my Steinberg UR does not.

About the Virus TI. Yes, I guess the hardware makes a USB tunnel to the VST Software and released it's audio that way. Something Roland should have done also with their ARIA range. They surely missed with it. That sales point with all audio channels over USB is completely useless. Because who of us doesn't already have an audio interface hooked up? And also need it for other external gear?

I already did my complaints with Roland Belgium. I suggest you also complain about it at Roland at your country. Then with a very small maybe, a real small one, we might get a VST.

Here a link for our Apple friends: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1215 (Damn, I hate them now, LOL)

manualfear
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:53 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by manualfear » Thu May 08, 2014 10:43 am

Hi Guys,

you can use multiple "ASIO" devices in ableton (should work for all other DAW as well):

luckily the tb-3 is utilizing asio drivers (and all other external souncards I have also support asio)

so if ur second SC has asio drivers u need to use asio 4 all drivers

1. DL asio4all from:

http://www.asio4all.com/

2. Connect both soundcards (i refer to tb-3 as a soundcard in this case)

3. Start up ableton and choose asio4all as audio device.

4. press hardware setup

5. in the asio4all setup page enable your tb-3 input (open selection with +) and enable your second sound card output.

I suggest disabling everything you dont need like the built in sound card and enable only the in and outputs you really require.
In case you tried this with even more asio compatible devices let us know I only tested with tb-3 and focusrite scarlet 2i4 and so far it seems to be running all right.

Kibosh
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by Kibosh » Thu May 08, 2014 4:49 pm

No luck.

Asio4All only sees 2 inputs from my Steinberg UR, which has 8 + ADAT option for even more inputs.

manualfear
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:53 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by manualfear » Fri May 09, 2014 10:40 am

Kibosh wrote:No luck.

Asio4All only sees 2 inputs from my Steinberg UR, which has 8 + ADAT option for even more inputs.
hmm.

but u do see the tb-3 as soundcard in ableton audio device settings drop down?

reinstalling the tb-3 driver might do the job...

this is how mine looks in asio 4 all settings when usb is connected to tb-3:

Image

Check those hints from the driver page:

Cautions and Limitations

Sound interruption or other less-than-perfect outcomes may be experienced if your computer's performance and specifications are somewhat inadequate. The types of applications you use and the way in which you use them can also influence the experience you receive.
On some computers, the driver does not load correctly if the TB-3 is already connected when Windows is started up. As a result, it will not be possible to use the TB-3 via USB. If this occurs, wait until after Windows has started to turn on the power of the TB-3 (or to connect it).
If the TB-3 does not work correctly after resuming from Sleep mode, you should exit all applications that use the TB-3, and then turn the power of the TB-3 off and on again.
If the USB cable is disconnected and reconnected while the TB-3 is in use, or if the power of the TB-3 is turned off, then on again, it may stop operating correctly. If this occurs, after resuming, you should exit all applications that use the TB-3, and turn the power of the TB-3 off, then on again.
If your computer was experiencing a heavy processing load, such as when accessing a CD-ROM Drive or network while the TB-3 was being used, the TB-3 may no longer operate correctly. If this occurs, stop the playback or recording, then try starting playback or recording over again. If you are still unable to play back or record, quit all programs that are using the TB-3, then turn the TB-3 off and then on again.
Audio clicks and pops may occur during playback or recording if you connect or disconnect other USB devices (such as USB memory) or turn another USB device on/off while using the TB-3.
In some cases, you may not obtain the expected level of performance if you're using a USB-connected hard disk at the same time as the TB-3. Do not use a USB-connected hard disk as the storage destination for the audio that you're playing back or recording.


Here more info in the driver manual on your c drive (it is for some reason referring to "double monitoring" but in another way as I understand):

[ASIO device]
When using the TB-3 with an ASIO-compatible application, select "TB-3" as the ASIO setting for your application.
* To prevent an audio feedback loop or double monitoring, make settings on your application to turn monitoring off.
* The TB-3 main unit does not support ASIO Direct Monitor, but if you use Cubase, by enabling Direct Monitoring in the Cubase setting, you can prevent loop oscillation of audio equipment and duplicate monitoring.
* When using the TB-3 with ASIO, we recommend that you set your application so that it does not use the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. (In order to decrease the load, and for convenience when changing Audio Buffer Size of the driver.)

C:/Program%20Files/RdDrv001/RDID0144/Readme/Readme_EN.htm

Kibosh
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by Kibosh » Fri May 09, 2014 4:35 pm

It's not the TB-3 giving the problem.

At the screenshot you posted you'll see at your Scarlett "Out: 4x.." With me with the Steinberg UR824 for the Ins and Outs it should say "Out: 8x.." and "In: 8x" but it does not, its just 2x In and outs which is not correct.

And at this time I have no clue if it is something I can change? I will make a post on the Steinberg forums to see if someone knows there.

RAFH
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:42 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by RAFH » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:43 pm

Hi guys,

Managed to get the tb-3 and my focusrite forte to work together via the asio4all drivers.

However, I can record midi FROM the tb, but cannot control it via notes in a midi channel set to midi-out to "tb-3 ctrl"

Why is this? ive never had a problem with anything else in the past.

Kibosh
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by Kibosh » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:44 am

You have to send the notes to "TB-3" not "TB-3 Ctrl".

In the link below there is an image for the MIDI preferences and an instrument rack with Max4Live device to fully use the ARIA TB-3 from Ableton Live 9. Also handy to "save somehow" your settings. You can't save presets, but you can adjust each par from MIDI, so saving these in Ableton envelopes saves the preset. You only have to write down the preset number which you used.

In that rack you have to adjust the settings of the external instrument. MIDI Channel and off course audio input.

So before you load the drumrack and M4L device, turn on the TB-3, set the MIDI as the image, and then drag in the drumrack (.adg file), then you can drag in the M4L device (.amxd file)into the drumrack.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=2 ... =folder%2c

PS:
  • The gate and limiter can be deleted from the rack.
  • Also, I found the TB-3 M4L device somewhere on the net, cleaned it up and added read back for the parameters. So when you change the settings directly on the TB-3, it will also change on the M4L device. So also credits to those people: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2014/04/a ... l-patches/
  • I'm also making a drum rack for the TR-8, but their I still have some issue.

tecolo
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by tecolo » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:43 am

manualfear wrote:Hi Guys,

you can use multiple "ASIO" devices in ableton (should work for all other DAW as well):

luckily the tb-3 is utilizing asio drivers (and all other external souncards I have also support asio)

so if ur second SC has asio drivers u need to use asio 4 all drivers

1. DL asio4all from:

http://www.asio4all.com/

2. Connect both soundcards (i refer to tb-3 as a soundcard in this case)

3. Start up ableton and choose asio4all as audio device.

4. press hardware setup

5. in the asio4all setup page enable your tb-3 input (open selection with +) and enable your second sound card output.

I suggest disabling everything you dont need like the built in sound card and enable only the in and outputs you really require.
In case you tried this with even more asio compatible devices let us know I only tested with tb-3 and focusrite scarlet 2i4 and so far it seems to be running all right.

Not working here, at least not in the way it should in my scenario. I have RME MADI card with two AD DA converters, everything is patched via RME patchmix, i have 32 analogue ins and outs in my system to connect to various hardware fx and instruments.

If i use Asio4all i am loosing all of my RME studio patchwork which is quite a lot of work.

I am really sad to see how Roland didn't think of people using their current setup, with current drivers and patching system in line with Roland Aira over USB. Doesn't make a sense. In order to fully utilize i can use either one ASIO system (my RME with all connections) or second (Aira asio over USB). Obviously i can always just use and patch Aira hardware outs, to my 32 i/o converter but then i am not having all individual instruments of Aira drum machine connected to my system..Not good..

And really not professional. I am seeing a lot of users on KVR and Steinberg forum having same issues..

AFAIK Mac user can daisy chain asio devices quite easily, but on Win platform there is not any other solution apart from asio4all which is workaround for simple setup but not for large studio setup as mine is.

I hope they will release something as driver update or some sort of Virus TI like software to overcome this limitation.

Kibosh
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by Kibosh » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:01 am

Asio4All uses the WDM drivers for the sound interface. For example my Steinberg UR824 has it's own ASIO driver with all the IO's, but the WDM driver just a stereo in and out, not the 8x8 like the Asio driver. This means that when using Asio4All, it only see the stereo in and out.

So it's just having luck which interface you have and the drivers that come with it.

Also with the Asio4All approach, there is no clock syncing, so that can cause issues too.

If all the above is correct :? I'm no expert

PS: Yes, Roland should make VST2 plugins to transfer the audio fixing this problem. I think the Virus TI can do this. And when they are working on the VST, they should also make it possible to save the presets, kits, etc...

Kibosh
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by Kibosh » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:39 am

Maybe we are in for a treat. New updates coming for ARIA in July: http://www.musictech.net/2014/07/roland ... deo-demos/

jasefos
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:31 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by jasefos » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:26 pm

Kibosh wrote:PS: Yes, Roland should make VST2 plugins to transfer the audio fixing this problem. I think the Virus TI can do this. And when they are working on the VST, they should also make it possible to save the presets, kits, etc...
Have you actually got this to *work* properly with a Virus TI yourself?
Please share your secrets if you have!

I have a Virus TI Polar and UA Apollo as my audio interface (with a heap of hardware synths directly patched). Sync and MIDI note timing when using the Virus TI via the VST plugin is almost unusable I find (particularly as overall PDC solution for your current project increases when you introduce plugins which require a larger processing buffer to work their magic). Also pops and crackles ... no fun at all (which is a real shame since part of the attraction to buying the TI was the total integration aspect). If only the Virus TI used USB2 or better instead of USB1 which seems challenged at best for audio streaming (certainly USB1 based audio interfaces are crap in terms of stability).

Instead I use the Virus via yeee-oldeee fashioned MIDI and audio ports. I'm Looking forward to getting the CTRLR plug-in editor adaptation someone has made to emulate the Virus TI plugin to work properly.

From my experience above I was skeptical about the TR8 having it's individual instrument outputs presented via USB only.
Using an aggregate Core Audio device as a workaround is not a solid solution for the rest of my studio.
JaseFOS

-Live10.1 |Push2|Maschinemk2|KeyLab61|LaunchPad|MCUpro|MCExt|MCExt|iPad2|TouchABLE2
-Mac Pro 5.1 (dual hex core Xeon 3.46gHz, 28Gb RAM) running MacOS 10.13.6
-Universal Audio Apollo Quad (firewire)
-SHITLOADS OF HARDWARE SYNTHS

Kibosh
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by Kibosh » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:16 pm

jasefos wrote:Have you actually got this to *work* properly with a Virus TI yourself?
Nope, I don't own one, but heard off your problems. And because off that I wrote "I think" in that sentence...
jasefos wrote:Please share your secrets if you have!
Not really secrets, but study your PC or laptop might improve performance. For example, my motherboard has two VIA chips as USB hubs and the Intel chipset also has two. So there are 4 USB hubs on my motherboard. Then I also looked which ports uses which chip so I can seperate the performance needed for the ones that need a lot off data like an audio interface.

If you use a laptop with for example only two ports, that motherboard may also only have one chip. That means all that data has to pass that one chip reducing off course the performance, and devices that need a lot, like the TI, will get into trouble.

Then their is the latency issue off the PC, also something to look into...

But that all said, last year I was looking into buying the Virus or the Nord-Lead 4R for myself, but I've read about the USB issues and the NL has better hands-on, so I've decided for the Nord-Lead.

If you're running a Windows 7 PC, I might help, but this isn't the thread for it. This is about the ARIA's. Make another thread and PM me that one. If you are on a MAC, sry.

Kibosh
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by Kibosh » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:01 am


Syver
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 10:46 am

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by Syver » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:13 am

Yes. Lots of improvements but no instructions on how to use them.

TR-8 Version 1.1 Update
- Manage your kit and pattern library with easy backup and restore over USB.
- Customize kits by adjusting the gain of each instrument to suit your individual style.
- Rolls are now easier to engage, offer more control, and sound better overall.
- Alternate unlatched trigger mode engages only while “On” button is held down.
- Scatter will enable for one cycle and then automatically disengage.
- Get back in the groove by instantly starting a pattern from the top.
- Lock the contents of a pattern so you can experiment without losing your original groove.
- Now you can edit both A and B parts of a pattern without stopping the sequencer.
- Local On/Off and MIDI Controller modes determine how MIDI data is sent and received.
- MIDI velocity is variable by the accent setting.
- Select kits using MIDI control change messages.
- Scatter On/Off, Type and Depth can be controlled via MIDI control change.
- Record patterns in real-time from external MIDI devices.
- Disable sending of all MIDI messages.
- Toggle whether or not TR-8 responds to PLAY/STOP messages.
- Control effects using MIDI control change messages.

TB-3 Version 1.1 Update
- Manage your pattern library with easy backup and restore over USB.
- Control both pattern tune (-700 to 700 cents) and master tune (430-450)
- Assign a specific tone to a pattern so sound will change automatically when pattern is selected.
- Transpose a pattern during performance by simply pressing a note on the touchpad’s keyboard. No need to hold “Keyboard” button.
- Organize your favorite patterns for quick access in live performance with a custom user bank.
- Lock the contents of a pattern so you can experiment without losing your original groove.
- Quickly change the root note of a pattern by shifting its pitch.
- The sequencer now supports notes from C0-C6 for added flexibility and dramatic slides.
- Extended Transpose Range.
- Local On/Off and MIDI Controller modes determine how MIDI data is sent and received.
- Record patterns in real-time from external MIDI devices.
- Implementation of both slide and accent pattern by MIDI control change.
- Scatter On/Off, Type and Depth can be controlled via MIDI control change.
- Disable sending of all MIDI messages.
- Note range has been extended from C0-C8 when controlled by external MIDI device.

Did the upgrade last night and that went smoothly but had no time to try and figure out how to use the new features. Have you ?

Kibosh
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: Setting up Roland Aira's with albeton

Post by Kibosh » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:11 am

Yes, that manual that comes with the ARIA's isn't really that. It's more a quick start thing. They should release a full manual.

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