The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

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Daniel_S
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The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

Post by Daniel_S » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:06 am

I watched the following video on the 128 setup for Drum Rack after it was suggested in a thread yesterday, and I am really impressed by this and think it would go well with Push too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TO3z8LtP5U

However, it will obviously take some time to fully set this up - so I was wondering what are the drawbacks that people who have used this method has encountered?

Is there something you cant do that really disrupts your work flow?

I'm only asking because there might be one thing that's a deal breaker for me and I'd rather know now before I spend time setting this up :)

Yes, this might be lazy but I dont get much time producing as it is so dont want to potentially waste a few hours.

Thanks

jbodango
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Re: The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

Post by jbodango » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:16 am

buffering after hitting octave up or octave down

Daniel_S
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Re: The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

Post by Daniel_S » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:28 am

jbodango wrote:buffering after hitting octave up or octave down
Because it's having to apply the octave setting to all 128 samples? How long of a delay is this usually?



Timbeaux
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Re: The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

Post by Timbeaux » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:42 pm

Okay as the most of u stated just the positive sites, I will say something negative (in my opinion):

- the loading of this instrument needs some time (i have 17 pads with 128 sounds on it and it needs 30-45 secs to load them all)

- adding FX to the sounds (especially sends) is a pain in the ass

- you are stuck to the samples, for example if u wanna play 2 snares at a time

re:dream
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Re: The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

Post by re:dream » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:07 pm

I highly recommend the 128 method - it takes some time, but it can play a huge role in your process of choosing your sound palette.

Some tips

- Rack and make a generic multisampler with the macro controls that you like. Keep it in your user presets and use it to fill with whatever you want.

- As Tom V says, take time to think carefully what you put in your sampler. It makes the difference between having exactly the sounds you want at your disposal, and having a hotch potch of of mismatched samples that you have to stumble through.

- Don't focus on building entire drum racks to order. Then you will have a drum rack that takes ages to load, and you will be very stuck with the choices you made in creating the rack. Rather focus on the samplers you will put in the cells. Then, when you are preparing your set, grab whatever sampler you want and slot it into the cells one by one, choosing the active sample as you go along. In addition, this gets you around Timbeaux's problem of wanting to play two snares at the same time. You can put whatever you like on the drum rack.

Timbeaux, I would like to hear more about your concerns with FX. I don't find it particularly problematic (or at any rate, not more problematic for 128s than for drum cells generally


Daniel_S
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Re: The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

Post by Daniel_S » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:40 pm

The Finn wrote:I highly recommend the 128 method - it takes some time, but it can play a huge role in your process of choosing your sound palette.

Some tips

- Rack and make a generic multisampler with the macro controls that you like. Keep it in your user presets and use it to fill with whatever you want.

- As Tom V says, take time to think carefully what you put in your sampler. It makes the difference between having exactly the sounds you want at your disposal, and having a hotch potch of of mismatched samples that you have to stumble through.

- Don't focus on building entire drum racks to order. Then you will have a drum rack that takes ages to load, and you will be very stuck with the choices you made in creating the rack. Rather focus on the samplers you will put in the cells. Then, when you are preparing your set, grab whatever sampler you want and slot it into the cells one by one, choosing the active sample as you go along. In addition, this gets you around Timbeaux's problem of wanting to play two snares at the same time. You can put whatever you like on the drum rack.

Timbeaux, I would like to hear more about your concerns with FX. I don't find it particularly problematic (or at any rate, not more problematic for 128s than for drum cells generally
Just so I've got this clear...

Rather than create one huge Drum Rack containing everything, create a Sampler rack for a kick, one for snare, one for hats etc and save each one as an instrument preset with pre-setup macros included.

Then when coming to start a new track, insert a standard Drum Rack and then just drop whatever pre-saved Sampler rack I have onto the pads?

That way only using what I need rather than loading up everything in one go?


Daniel_S
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Re: The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

Post by Daniel_S » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:53 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
Daniel_S wrote:
The Finn wrote:I highly recommend the 128 method - it takes some time, but it can play a huge role in your process of choosing your sound palette.

Some tips

- Rack and make a generic multisampler with the macro controls that you like. Keep it in your user presets and use it to fill with whatever you want.

- As Tom V says, take time to think carefully what you put in your sampler. It makes the difference between having exactly the sounds you want at your disposal, and having a hotch potch of of mismatched samples that you have to stumble through.

- Don't focus on building entire drum racks to order. Then you will have a drum rack that takes ages to load, and you will be very stuck with the choices you made in creating the rack. Rather focus on the samplers you will put in the cells. Then, when you are preparing your set, grab whatever sampler you want and slot it into the cells one by one, choosing the active sample as you go along. In addition, this gets you around Timbeaux's problem of wanting to play two snares at the same time. You can put whatever you like on the drum rack.

Timbeaux, I would like to hear more about your concerns with FX. I don't find it particularly problematic (or at any rate, not more problematic for 128s than for drum cells generally
Just so I've got this clear...

Rather than create one huge Drum Rack containing everything, create a Sampler rack for a kick, one for snare, one for hats etc and save each one as an instrument preset with pre-setup macros included.

Then when coming to start a new track, insert a standard Drum Rack and then just drop whatever pre-saved Sampler rack I have onto the pads?

That way only using what I need rather than loading up everything in one go?
Sounds like you got it :-)
Excellent :)

JuanSOLO
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Re: The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

Post by JuanSOLO » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:41 pm

I quit doing the 128's. I kept realizing I always chose the same 5 kicks, or same 3 hats, etc.
I keep the sample selection simple and the effects complex but identical across all cells.
So I might have a long boomy 808 kick sound. I'll use effect and sampler params to turn that into a whimpy little kick, or a kick with heavy bit crushy tails or something.

One of the things that seems to get overlooked in building drum racks is putting a drumRack in a cell, and then putting the sampler inside the nested drumRack. This way you can map sends to macros and choose a few audio routing options to optimize how you use effects.


JuanSOLO
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Re: The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

Post by JuanSOLO » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:41 pm

When you put a drumRack in a drumRack you loose the cell layout visually, but you still have all the I/O routings of the nested rack.
You can map macros to sends of the nested rack this way, so all of your samples have a simple way to go to sends.
The sends can be routed to either the hosting drumRacks return effects, OR Lives Return tracks.
Each option changes weather or not preceding effects in the nested rack go to return effects.

Also you do things like make a nested high hat rack, using 2 cells, then you can have effects chains on the hosting cell to effect both open and closed hats.
Same goes for toms.

For me it's about optimizing the workflow a bit.
If I wanna EQ my hats or toms, I'd rather they all get treated with the same effects chain easing CPU,
and not having things broke down so far that I am eqing and effecting closed AND open hats, or turning up the reverb for 3 different toms individually.

It gets kind of complex to explain, but once you start working like that it really makes a lot of since.

Timbeaux
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Re: The Drum Rack 128 Setup - any drawbacks?

Post by Timbeaux » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:13 pm

JuanSOLO wrote:I quit doing the 128's. I kept realizing I always chose the same 5 kicks, or same 3 hats, etc.
thats another point.

The idea with the sampler instrument for every kind of hit(kick,snare,..) seems more interesting for me.


about the concerns with the FX:

I dont like the way how sends are available/shown. I like more the traditional sends, they are not inside of so little space like in a drum rack. Even if i need 10 send/return channels or more it is the best choice for me.

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