Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
david.barker
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by david.barker » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:53 am

panten wrote:
mr.ergonomics wrote:Just to keep things in perspective... I know a lot professionals who rant about Photoshop because it keeps crashing regularly on their macs at big projects :roll:
If I'm honest I have to say that in my 10 years working as an Artist in Game Development Photoshop has crashed about 5 times.

However I feel the OP's pain as I unfortunately have to use 3D Software also dealing with constant crashes with Zbrush, Maya, Unreal Engine.

It's part of the job but every time it happens I sigh/curse/rage/schlump against the desk, take a deep breath then restart the package trying to remember what I did in the last 10 mins which is how long I have my AUTOSAVE set to.

When Ableton Live crashes I just shrug and restart the program, but that's probably because it's merely a hobby for me, if I relied on it as a source of income.. well that'd be a different matter.

Iterative Save is your friend.

I agree with you Panten :D

I use Live as a hobby too,and feel for those using Live as part of their job.But still,annoying, when things go south. :evil:
I always back up like most people do.

Would be great if Ableton responded quicky to the crash reports you send in.For example ,contact you in the first instance,to see if the problem can resoved that way.

Or ask you if they could remote access your software(with permission of course).And get behind the scenes,and see if it could be fixed that way :idea:
Or even (with permisson,monitoring your software as you use it) :idea:

But overall nothing is infallable,all software has problems,the issue is rcognising the fault,s and getting them dealt with qucikly.

Ableton is a very good company, but think that more could be done on the customer response level

Customer is king as the old saying goes :D

ian_halsall
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by ian_halsall » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:47 am

Live 9 64 bit beta hasn't crashed on my windows 7 machine - ever.

I use it every day for hours.

Just one more data point....

andydes
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by andydes » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:02 am

The frequency of bugs and crashing has nothing to do with how complex a program is, what it interfaces, the platform it runs on, or even the skill of the writers .

It's only affected by how quickly you need to finish a task. No matter how simple a thing you need to do, if there's a deadline imminent, your software will fuck you about.

re:dream
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by re:dream » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:05 pm

And the best fix for a bug is trying to replicate it.

andydes
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by andydes » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:13 pm

The Finn wrote:And the best fix for a bug is trying to replicate it.
Or showing your manager why you can't finish that thing you're supposed to be doing.

moonpie
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by moonpie » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:13 pm

99.9% of the crashes I now experience in Live (still on 8) is down to wayward vsts or Aus. The most annoying one for me currently is the Valhalla Room Vst crashing, but after contacting the developer, the AU works fine instead.

If you want to use your comp for professional use, you just have to be 100% on every tiny bit of software you use, and then use them in the exact same way every time.

kitekrazy
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by kitekrazy » Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:11 pm

I'm curious as to what meds the OP is on?

Try gaming and maybe you'll get a better dose of reality.

beatz01
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by beatz01 » Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:11 pm

kitekrazy wrote:I'm curious as to what meds the OP is on?

Try gaming and maybe you'll get a better dose of reality.
Your contribution to this thread contains zero information but thanks anyway :)

kitekrazy
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by kitekrazy » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:37 am

beatz01 wrote:
kitekrazy wrote:I'm curious as to what meds the OP is on?

Try gaming and maybe you'll get a better dose of reality.
Your contribution to this thread contains zero information but thanks anyway :)
No one really contributed to it either. Most of the discussion was about Photoshop. Your rant was not thought out well. You have a lot of ignorance when it comes to software. There is my information to your useless thread.

vudoo
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by vudoo » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:00 am

beatz01 wrote:I wonder if there once will be a day when a new DAW (version) is released and it just...works.

You know, like with Photoshop or alike - Photoshop, Illustrator etc never have crashed on my computer.Not once.No updating problems, no crashing, no problems.Nothing.They just work.As advertised.As they should.

Amazing, isn't it ?

Why is that companies like Ableton or Bitwig have managed to brainwash customers into thinking releasing buggy beta versions but charging premium prices is a normal, "industry standard" way of doing business ?!

Really, it's one thing to constantly having to release bug fixes (because you didn't release a finished product in the first place) but in addition to that not even having the fixes working properly...i mean, come on.

Fed up with these companies getting away with these kind of practices.

Might even border on fraud in some countries..
Hmmm….i guess you don't use Adobe product for a living. I work as an on-line editor and mixer, i use Protools, Media composer, Premiere pro, After Effects and Photoshop all day long. I can tell you from experience that Photoshop, After Effects and Premiere crash just as much or even more than ProTools for example. I can't say much about Live as it has been rock solid for me. But in general, i do agree with you that most software companies should test their apps more rigorously before public release, but Ableton is definitely no worse than Adobe in this regard.

I use Ableton Live 9 on my MBP, iMac 27'' and the new Mac Pro for hrs everyday, i have not had one single crash. Maybe you should check your config and 3rd party plugs see if there are any compatibility issues.

H20nly
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by H20nly » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:05 am

deva wrote:Audio is quite different... A DAW has to interface with hundreds of different pieces of equipment... audio interfaces, mixers, midi controllers, hardware synths and effects, etc... in realtime, and with things like midi sync. Then there are all the complex plugins and huge disk streaming sample libraries.
this.

Photoshop has to work with whatever ADOBE shit you throw at it.

vudoo
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by vudoo » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:44 am

deva wrote:Audio is quite different... A DAW has to interface with hundreds of different pieces of equipment... audio interfaces, mixers, midi controllers, hardware synths and effects, etc... in realtime, and with things like midi sync. Then there are all the complex plugins and huge disk streaming sample libraries.
yes different indeed….as an NLE in a typical pro environment has to interface with video switchers, routers, time base corrector, black generator, HDcam SR deck that cost 150K +, centralized servers that cost as much as my house, plug-ins, a huge variety of camera format and its workflow….there's is a reason why the budget allocated to any film and TV production is vastly lopsided in favor of the the picture side even though sound is just as important as the picture on the final product.

deva
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by deva » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:18 am

vudoo wrote:
deva wrote:Audio is quite different... A DAW has to interface with hundreds of different pieces of equipment... audio interfaces, mixers, midi controllers, hardware synths and effects, etc... in realtime, and with things like midi sync. Then there are all the complex plugins and huge disk streaming sample libraries.
yes different indeed….as an NLE in a typical pro environment has to interface with video switchers, routers, time base corrector, black generator, HDcam SR deck that cost 150K +, centralized servers that cost as much as my house, plug-ins, a huge variety of camera format and its workflow….there's is a reason why the budget allocated to any film and TV production is vastly lopsided in favor of the the picture side even though sound is just as important as the picture on the final product.
The comparison was with Photoshop...

fishmonkey
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by fishmonkey » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:50 am

vudoo wrote:
deva wrote:Audio is quite different... A DAW has to interface with hundreds of different pieces of equipment... audio interfaces, mixers, midi controllers, hardware synths and effects, etc... in realtime, and with things like midi sync. Then there are all the complex plugins and huge disk streaming sample libraries.
yes different indeed….as an NLE in a typical pro environment has to interface with video switchers, routers, time base corrector, black generator, HDcam SR deck that cost 150K +, centralized servers that cost as much as my house, plug-ins, a huge variety of camera format and its workflow….there's is a reason why the budget allocated to any film and TV production is vastly lopsided in favor of the the picture side even though sound is just as important as the picture on the final product.
it is different. audio processing involves a whole lot of real-time stuff happening in very tight synchronisation. audio processing is intrinsicly trickier than video processing.
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

RDiiO
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Re: Ableton, Bitwig etc - get your act together !

Post by RDiiO » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:16 pm

beatz01 wrote:I wonder if there once will be a day when a new DAW (version) is released and it just...works.

You know, like with Photoshop or alike - Photoshop, Illustrator etc never have crashed on my computer.Not once.No updating problems, no crashing, no problems.Nothing.They just work.As advertised.As they should.

Amazing, isn't it ?

Why is that companies like Ableton or Bitwig have managed to brainwash customers into thinking releasing buggy beta versions but charging premium prices is a normal, "industry standard" way of doing business ?!

Really, it's one thing to constantly having to release bug fixes (because you didn't release a finished product in the first place) but in addition to that not even having the fixes working properly...i mean, come on.

Fed up with these companies getting away with these kind of practices.

Might even border on fraud in some countries..
Completely agree.....Bitwig had two years to develop/beta test and in less than a month they've released 7 updates and are basically charging people $400 for a public beta....Same goes for Ableton instead minor updates like 9.1.2 give us something that's stable and some major upgrades worth the price of Live 9 Suite

The best company IMO is Propellerhead, gotta love Reason 7 for its stability and updates

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