Problem Controlling Reverb

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JackDULUOZ
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Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by JackDULUOZ » Mon May 12, 2014 4:49 am

I have a custom reverb effect assigned to a vocal track in a current Live set that I am working on, but I want to use a different reverb for the chorus than the one I am using for the verse. Seeing as you apparently cannot assign effects to specific clips, per se, I consolidated the chorus into two different clips and moved them to a separate track. My issue now is that, although I have no reverb selected (or any effects at all) assigned to the designated chorus track, the reverb from the designated verse track is affecting the chorus track. When I turn off the reverb module on the verse track, it turns off the reverb for the chorus track as well, but I cannot seem to get the chorus track to operate independent of the verse track, effects wise. Sorry that was so longwinded. Thanks in advance.

Edit: ALL effects from the verse track are affecting the chorus track.

re:dream
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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by re:dream » Mon May 12, 2014 6:31 am

It would help to know a bit more about your setup.

Are the verse and chorus tracks in the same group, for instance?

And, why don't you use send effects? You can setup the different reverbs on different return tracks, and then automate the sends...

JackDULUOZ
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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by JackDULUOZ » Tue May 13, 2014 12:50 am

Sorry, I should have specified that I am working within Arrangement view. All tracks have already been recorded. Does this answer your question about "groups?" As for your other question, I simply have not trained myself with using sends and returns. It seems that it is something I will have to learn ASAP.

jestermgee
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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by jestermgee » Tue May 13, 2014 2:34 am

Can you post a screen shot (you need to upload it to somewhere like photobucket and post a link)?

It sounds like though you have created a new segment for your chorus separate from your verse that it is still either in the same track or group.

For your situation you would want at least physically 2 tracks where your verses would be on track 1 and your chorus on track 2. Then you just need whatever effects you want for the verse on track 1 and the chorus on track 2.

Of course using sends would be a more simple option especially if you wanted to layer vocal parts but without getting too involved having effects on track 1 should not affect anything on track 2.

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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by re:dream » Tue May 13, 2014 4:29 am

JackDULUOZ wrote:As for your other question, I simply have not trained myself with using sends and returns. It seems that it is something I will have to learn ASAP.
It's dead easy. Just slap the reverbs you want on some return tracks and adjust sends to taste. Use automation to make it work in arrangement.

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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by boderekstits » Tue May 13, 2014 5:40 am

re:dream wrote:
JackDULUOZ wrote:As for your other question, I simply have not trained myself with using sends and returns. It seems that it is something I will have to learn ASAP.
It's dead easy. Just slap the reverbs you want on some return tracks and adjust sends to taste. Use automation to make it work in arrangement.
One more thing, turn up the dry/wet ratio to 100% wet on the effects devices, on your return tracks. Then dial up the sends as needed on what you wanted effected.

JackDULUOZ
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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by JackDULUOZ » Wed May 14, 2014 12:34 am

Sorry for the delayed response. Here is a screenshot of the project in question in Arrangement, with the chorus track selected:

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o48 ... 73849f.png

As you can see, the verse and chorus are each on their own track. There are no effects applied to the chorus track.

Here is a screenshot of the Arrangement view with the verse track selected:

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o48 ... fb888d.png

You can see the reverb that has been applied, as well as a multiband compressor and Melodyne module that are both collapsed. All three effects on the verse track manifest in the chorus track.

Maybe there is something I am not seeing/not paying attention to? Thanks for the replies, fellas.

jestermgee
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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by jestermgee » Wed May 14, 2014 1:35 am

Well that makes everything pretty clear... But not the issue :(

From what I can see you certainly have a separate track for your verse and chorus and you have effects on your verse track and nothing on the chorus. But you say the effects on the verse track seem to apply on the chorus too?

That does seem strange indeed.

When you play the chorus can you see any signals running through the verse track effects? There is a signal meter at the end of each effect. Maybe there is a sidechain feed or something feeding somewhere. I'm really not too sure.

clydesdale
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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by clydesdale » Wed May 14, 2014 1:58 am

Maybe one of the following:

- A send is turned on and don't realize it or there is send automation somewhere in the track or clip.
- The I/O on one of the Vox tracks is set to the other track.
- You've got effects on you audio interface or a feedback delay

Use the SOLO to isolate the track dry signals. Check the sends or delete/mute the returns. Delete/mute the effects. It's pretty much just a process of elimination to find your problem.
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fishmonkey
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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by fishmonkey » Wed May 14, 2014 2:55 am

the routings of the vocal channels are hidden in your screenshots, so they don't tell the full story...
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re:dream
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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by re:dream » Wed May 14, 2014 5:01 am

Sounds like a bug.

Help --> get support -> generate status report file --> upload the file to Ableton Support website.

JackDULUOZ
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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by JackDULUOZ » Thu May 15, 2014 3:19 am

clydesdale wrote:Maybe one of the following:

- A send is turned on and don't realize it or there is send automation somewhere in the track or clip.
- The I/O on one of the Vox tracks is set to the other track.
- You've got effects on you audio interface or a feedback delay

Use the SOLO to isolate the track dry signals. Check the sends or delete/mute the returns. Delete/mute the effects. It's pretty much just a process of elimination to find your problem.
1. At the time I recorded the vocals for this project, I had never even messed with sends/returns. But I double checked just to be thorough.
2. Sound is coming from ext. in. Sound is output to the master.
3. I have never done anything different with my audio interface, other than the occasional increase or decrease of monitoring volume.

Soloing the chorus track renders it uninfluenced by any effects on any other track. But once all tracks are played simultaneously, that oh so inappropriate reverb hits loud as a drum. Deleting the reverb from the verse track removes the phantom reverb from the chorus track. Reinserting the reverb reinserts the phantom reverb on the chorus track. Muting does the same thing.

Like someone said before me, it's looking more and more like a bug. I'm going to contact Ableton.

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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by re:dream » Thu May 15, 2014 7:08 am

Let us know how it goes. I found a similar problem once when grouping tracks (an effect enabled for one track in a grouped track is enabled for all the tracks) but never in ungrouped tracks.

JackDULUOZ
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Re: Problem Controlling Reverb

Post by JackDULUOZ » Thu May 15, 2014 6:49 pm

Ableton got back to me today. The answer was, as I had suspected earlier, right under my nose.

The problem was with Melodyne. Actually, it isn't so much a problem as it is simply a consequence of improper method. When I transferred the vocals from the verse track to the Melodyne plug-in for pitch correction, I transferred them with the Multiband Compressor and reverb effects on the track. So when I consolidated and moved the chorus region to its own track, I moved an already Melodyne-affected clip. Hope that makes sense.

Thanks again for all the help, everybody.

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