third-party sequencers -- counter-productive?

[Jorge3]

Many drum machine plugins come with a sequencer:

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/the ... -410653/11

Whenever I try to make some use of it, I end up wasting the time by re-entering the patterns in the DAW's native sequencer, because I prefer to have clips that I can directly see/edit/arrange in the full context of the song that is laid out in the DAW. Below is how MDrummer's sequencer is used in AL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmCEBN5ifgw

I find it counter-intuitive. The clips don't tell which note has which elements, and I'm forced to calculate & remember how the note pitch relates to the plugin's internal scheme of patterns. If I wanted to change a pattern, I'd have to click the track, open the plugin window, and possibly do a few more clicks to reach the plugin's sequencer, whereas I could have simply created a pattern clip on the DAW's track itself in the first place, which then I could directly grab & move around in the song rather than editing its alias note within a clip with no visual reference to the other elements of the song. I even tend to re-sample each sound from the drum machine plugins into AL's devices to reduce the "remote-ness" in the production process as well as the CPU usage & the risk of crashing.

I can see some uses of plugin sequencers in live situations or transferring non-rendered rhythm tracks across different DAWs. But, if I know I won't do those things, could there still be a point in programming patterns within plugins?

[jestermgee]

I never do it within the plugin.

Take EZDrummer2 for instance. It has a rather powerful in-plugin sequencer which is not just a pattern but allows a complete drum track to be created within the plugin and receives position timing from the DAW. But that then requires editing within the plugin and the rest of your set within Live.

I much prefer to do it all within Live so I can see the drum track with the rest of the content and it's possible to use just a MIDI track or a drum rack for VST plugins. I think these plugins are aimed at less capable DAWs or for use over multiple DAWs easily. In that instance, yes it would make a lot of sense to program within the plugin.

[doghouse]

could there still be a point in programming patterns within plugins?

Yes, when the plugin sequencer has special features not available in the host DAW, especially features that map tightly to the sound engine (switching kits, mute/solo parts of a kit, etc.)

Creating clips in session view is already like your standard drum machine sequencer interface, but in other DAWs you might want to use the VST sequencer. For instance, in Reason I always use the sequencer built into Redrum to create the patterns and use the main sequencer to select the patterns.