Behringer ditches Guitar Center and why you should too.

[Ronin1973]

I've spend quite a few dollars at Guitar Center here in the USA. I actually bought my copy of Ableton Live 9 there among other products.

Guitar Center is currently claiming that it has preemptively severed its relationship with Behringer. But the truth is quite different.

Here are both sides of the story:

http://www.musicincmag.com/News/2014/14 ... 19_GC.html

http://www.ericgarland.co/2013/11/26/gu ... ox-retail/

It would seem that Guitar Center hasn't been paying its vendors and racking up a large amount of debt to them. GC purchases on credit and the expectation is that they will be paying vendors like Ableton, Behringer, etc. for their goods in a timely fashion.

Guitar Center has already restructured after being taken over by vulture capitalists who more than likely saddled GC with debt, raked in high management fees, then filed for protection and more than likely settled with vendors for a fraction that was owed.

http://ezine.bankrupt.com/ezine/latest- ... ss-in-2012

But what concern is this of yours, right? You paid for your gear/software, right? Your software is legitimate, registered, and this is not your problem, right?

Well. It should be. When vendors aren't paid for their goods, they take a loss. There are hard costs with R&D, manufacturing, distribution, employees and financing the debts of the businesses that retail your product. I'm sure that anyone at Ableton will tell you that cost of building a single Push is NOT cheap.

Now imagine Ableton not getting paid for it and the retailer POCKETING every penny of what you paid. Perhaps they'll take a loss and settle for pennies of the dollars that they should have made.

What this means to you is that Behringer, Ableton, Akai, Native Instruments, Avid, etc. have to EAT those costs and fore-go all that hard earned money you shelled out in support of their products. I shelled out $600 last year for my copy of Ableton Live 9. I think it's a great piece of software. $600 isn't cheap. But Ableton is a good company and I'd like them to continue developing Live, the Push, etc.

If they aren't getting paid. They can't do that. To me, that's even WORSE than pirating. Certainly pirated software takes a lot of profit away from the developer. But at least it didn't cost them the expense of a full retail package. Printing up all of those manuals, the retail box, the DVDs, supporting a registered user, are all COSTS OF SALE... money that manufacturers shell out in hopes of returning a profit.

Ultimately, YOU get to pay again, when Guitar Center doesn't pay its bills. Sadly, companies have to raise prices, lay off staff, slow down development, cut features, or even go out of business when they don't get paid by retailers... especially LARGE retailers.

The problem is that Guitar Center IS a huge retailer. They are huge because WE buy from them.

I would suggest to you not to buy your Ableton products from Guitar Center or ANY other product. But definitely, please use another retailer of your choosing. When retailers don't pay vendors, we ALL suffer... while they pocket YOUR money and leave the vendor with huge debts.

Everyone deserves to be paid for their work whether it be Ableton or Behringer... or the next guy. I'm not shopping at Guitar Center anymore. I feel sorry for their employees, but I support developers first. I don't own any Guitar Center products. However, I DO own Ableton products.

Thanks for reading this. I look forward to a constructive discussion if there's something I've overlooked or misinterpreted from my readings.

[TomViolenz]

Guitar Center has already restructured after being taken over by vulture capitalists who more than likely saddled GC with debt, raked in high management fees, then filed for protection and more than likely settled with vendors for a fraction that was owed.

Yeah for capitalism...

[jlgrimes]

I've spend quite a few dollars at Guitar Center here in the USA. I actually bought my copy of Ableton Live 9 there among other products.

Guitar Center is currently claiming that it has preemptively severed its relationship with Behringer. But the truth is quite different.

Here are both sides of the story:

http://www.musicincmag.com/News/2014/14 ... 19_GC.html

http://www.ericgarland.co/2013/11/26/gu ... ox-retail/

It would seem that Guitar Center hasn't been paying its vendors and racking up a large amount of debt to them. GC purchases on credit and the expectation is that they will be paying vendors like Ableton, Behringer, etc. for their goods in a timely fashion.

Guitar Center has already restructured after being taken over by vulture capitalists who more than likely saddled GC with debt, raked in high management fees, then filed for protection and more than likely settled with vendors for a fraction that was owed.

http://ezine.bankrupt.com/ezine/latest- ... ss-in-2012

But what concern is this of yours, right? You paid for your gear/software, right? Your software is legitimate, registered, and this is not your problem, right?

Well. It should be. When vendors aren't paid for their goods, they take a loss. There are hard costs with R&D, manufacturing, distribution, employees and financing the debts of the businesses that retail your product. I'm sure that anyone at Ableton will tell you that cost of building a single Push is NOT cheap.

Now imagine Ableton not getting paid for it and the retailer POCKETING every penny of what you paid. Perhaps they'll take a loss and settle for pennies of the dollars that they should have made.

What this means to you is that Behringer, Ableton, Akai, Native Instruments, Avid, etc. have to EAT those costs and fore-go all that hard earned money you shelled out in support of their products. I shelled out $600 last year for my copy of Ableton Live 9. I think it's a great piece of software. $600 isn't cheap. But Ableton is a good company and I'd like them to continue developing Live, the Push, etc.

If they aren't getting paid. They can't do that. To me, that's even WORSE than pirating. Certainly pirated software takes a lot of profit away from the developer. But at least it didn't cost them the expense of a full retail package. Printing up all of those manuals, the retail box, the DVDs, supporting a registered user, are all COSTS OF SALE... money that manufacturers shell out in hopes of returning a profit.

Ultimately, YOU get to pay again, when Guitar Center doesn't pay its bills. Sadly, companies have to raise prices, lay off staff, slow down development, cut features, or even go out of business when they don't get paid by retailers... especially LARGE retailers.

The problem is that Guitar Center IS a huge retailer. They are huge because WE buy from them.

I would suggest to you not to buy your Ableton products from Guitar Center or ANY other product. But definitely, please use another retailer of your choosing. When retailers don't pay vendors, we ALL suffer... while they pocket YOUR money and leave the vendor with huge debts.

Everyone deserves to be paid for their work whether it be Ableton or Behringer... or the next guy. I'm not shopping at Guitar Center anymore. I feel sorry for their employees, but I support developers first. I don't own any Guitar Center products. However, I DO own Ableton products.

Thanks for reading this. I look forward to a constructive discussion if there's something I've overlooked or misinterpreted from my readings.

This is alot harder to do now unless you just order over the internet.

Mars went out of business and most mom and pop music stores have an extremely limited collection now. Some of them had big selections back in the day but now had to limit their selection or go out of business.

[re:dream]

The advantage of being in a relative backwater like South Africa. Guitar Centre and the big players have left us alone. So though music gear tends to be extremely expensive here we still have decent music stores with knowledgeable staff. I don't know how they survive, but they do, and they provide excellent service...

[Ronin1973]

This is alot harder to do now unless you just order over the internet.

Mars went out of business and most mom and pop music stores have an extremely limited collection now. Some of them had big selections back in the day but now had to limit their selection or go out of business.

Guitar Center has nothing you can't order via the internet. Shipping is about the same cost as sales tax (in the US). So the only difference is having to wait a few days for your gear. But just remember, the chances of the vendor getting paid or paid in full for the money you spend is pretty shady.

Like I said, you ultimately end up paying MUCH more in order to make up for Guitar Center's unethical business practices. The vultures end up walking away with ALL your money and the company that makes your gear gets stiffed and has to make up for the loss. I like getting free updates. I like when they bring new and interesting products to the market. Affordable home recording is a good thing. If the money never reaches those that are spending BILLIONS to bring us these products, then the entire community will suffer.

[memes_33]

i think everyone knows/knew that GC's days were numbered, including GC. i have a hard time shedding a tear for behringer though. cheap-as-shit, made-in-china gear is a double edged sword- while on one hand it profits off of the poor chinese factory conditions and increases waste by making products that won't last for long, it has also given people the power to create and record music at home, which was not possible until mackie and others starting making affordable gear.

[eyeknow]

I'm very sad about the demise of GC. It's going to be like tower records soon.

There are not many business's run in the world that don't have a dirty undertow. I can't get choked up about that because you basically can't live in the US w/o using things that are dirty and icky.

cigs, dope, video games, transportation (including everything you eat and consume) government (doesn't really matter which one) it's all the same but many support this infrastructure and then complain crap that they fully support (but think they are somehow fighting back)

I'll miss GC.

[UncleAge]

When I was younger and lived in the DC metro area it was Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center, god I loved that store. If/When GC goes bye-bye I'll miss them too. Its the main place I go nowadays to try/buy instruments (bass/guitar/keyboards/etc.).

[jbw]

Brett Nelson agrees, over four years ago, @ 2:34 ----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz6wXlBiFY4

[beats me]

You don’t even need to order music gear or software from an online music retailer anymore. Most of it is available on Amazon.

[eyeknow]

I don't buy it from amazon personally. I like sweetwater though. If I'm paying cash I'll order from them 9 out of ten times. For stuff like guitars, I like MF/GC because I have the cards and they have terrific "no interest" options (I'm not getting one for sweetwater, I have enough!)

In fact, I still haven't quite paid for push yet (almost) from GC and I know I bought suite using that payment plan (long since paid off)

When GC has it IN STOCK, I'll buy from them even with cali sales tax.

[3dot...]

Behringer is a company that's known to ripoff other companies intelectual property....
they have reverse engineered cloned so many pieces of hardware..
and they also have no shame in copying trademarks and releasing confusing similar products..
ripping off designs and technologies is how they make their $$$ (reverse engineering is much cheaper than real r&d)
just ask Roland/Boss, Mackie, KRK etc. etc... and even Apple
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/09/b ... apple-com/
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/09/o ... nd-copies/


personally...I'm not sad to see them get the other side of the stick... GC is a huge client.

[kitekrazy]

Behringer is a company that's known to ripoff other companies intelectual property....
they have reverse engineered cloned so many pieces of hardware..
and they also have no shame in copying trademarks and releasing confusing similar products..
ripping off designs and technologies is how they make their $$$ (reverse engineering is much cheaper than real r&d)
just ask Roland/Boss, Mackie, KRK etc. etc... and even Apple
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/09/b ... apple-com/
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/09/o ... nd-copies/


personally...I'm not sad to see them get the other side of the stick... GC is a huge client.

Nice to see another side of the story.

We had a local place down the street from GC shutdown only because of road construction. The one thing he offered which GC can't is service after the sale. Smaller stores survive by offering services. He was also a Washburn dealer and those are not sold in GC and rarely Sam Ash.

There are plenty of shops in my area that are not effected by GC. Some people prefer to buy gear from people who dress better and not call you "dude" or "man".

[kitekrazy]

I don't buy it from amazon personally. I like sweetwater though. If I'm paying cash I'll order from them 9 out of ten times. For stuff like guitars, I like MF/GC because I have the cards and they have terrific "no interest" options (I'm not getting one for sweetwater, I have enough!)

In fact, I still haven't quite paid for push yet (almost) from GC and I know I bought suite using that payment plan (long since paid off)

When GC has it IN STOCK, I'll buy from them even with cali sales tax.

Same here. Larger money items online I would trust Sweetwater but I usually have to go into a store and touch what I'm buying.

[eyeknow]

Behringer is a company that's known to ripoff other companies intelectual property....
they have reverse engineered cloned so many pieces of hardware..
and they also have no shame in copying trademarks and releasing confusing similar products..
ripping off designs and technologies is how they make their $$$ (reverse engineering is much cheaper than real r&d)
just ask Roland/Boss, Mackie, KRK etc. etc... and even Apple
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/09/b ... apple-com/
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/09/o ... nd-copies/


personally...I'm not sad to see them get the other side of the stick... GC is a huge client.

Nice to see another side of the story.

We had a local place down the street from GC shutdown only because of road construction. The one thing he offered which GC can't is service after the sale. Smaller stores survive by offering services. He was also a Washburn dealer and those are not sold in GC and rarely Sam Ash.

There are plenty of shops in my area that are not effected by GC. Some people prefer to buy gear from people who dress better and not call you "dude" or "man".

Yeah, we have "skips" (otherwise known as "jips" ) and they stay afloat with lessons. They sure as hell don't carry much stuff I like