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 Post subject: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:20 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:03 am
Posts: 5
Hi y'all. So I'm a guitarist (electric) and I've moved from Cubase to Live, and I've run into this problem tracking guitars. The recording of my guitar always end up being late on the timeline and I keep having to slightly advance the recording towards the beginning of the track afterwards to get it to play in time :O Is there a simple way to make the track automatically sync up with the other tracks as I played it while recording?


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:03 am
Posts: 5
This is maddening. The more I concentrate on striking the string consistently on the beat, the more consistently delayed the recording end up on the timeline. I try to play a little ahead of the beat, which results in the recording lining up better with the other tracks, but it sucks the flow, feel and groove out of my performance as my focus has to shift to the amped and delayed tone from the speakers instead of locking to the acoustic sound of the pick hitting the strings to the groove of the music. I don't know how to explain it but it feels like the equivalent of dancing a fraction of a beat ahead of a dance partner.

Is there a way to turn this off so that the timing is the same on playback as it was during recording?


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:59 am
Posts: 109
Go into Preferences and look under the Audio tab. Under Latency, what does it say for your Buffer Size? If you have a very large buffer size this may be the reason for your delayed signal.


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:03 am
Posts: 5
I change my latency depending on situation. If I'm just starting out a project I tend to start with a buffer size of 64, but as the project grows I have to up the latency in order to avoid popping and clicking. At 64 the effect is so small that it is usually undetectable, but on higher settings (256 and above) the effect becomes easily detectable and eventually massive.

Latency isn't really the issue as I am perfectly capable of keeping the timing tight by focusing on the acoustic sound and tactile feel of the guitar in relation to the other tracks. I don't really care if the amped tone from the speakers is a bit delayed by latency as this is effectively masked by the immediate acoustic sound of the pick hitting the strings. I only monitor the amped tone in the speakers to know that my playing is within the scope of the amp model. The problem however seem to be that Ableton for some reason is placing the audio as it is heard rather than as it was played or something :?


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 15710
Location: The Wild West
Windows or OS X?
what type of interface are using to record with?


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:02 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:03 am
Posts: 5
I'm using Win7 and the Focusrite Liquid 56 interface.


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:59 am
Posts: 109
Since I don't know what your current Live Set looks like, I'll give a suggestion for you to try:

Go to Arrangement view. Put whatever tracks you wish to play along with while you record guitar at the absolute beginning of the timeline (1.1.1). Record arm your guitar track, make sure global record is armed and make sure that you're set to start recording at the appropriate place- the absolute beginning in this case. You should be able to record your guitar and have it play in unison with your other tracks. If this isn't the case then its a latency issue. If it is a latency issue, you can fix it either by ignoring (to the best of your abilities)the delayed sound while you record and then adjusting the track delay setting, or you should buy a better audio interface. EDIT: wrote this before you posted your audio interface- seems like a good one, hmmm...

I'm not quite sure what else your issue might be. hmmm, well, Does your signal sound fine when you play JUST your guitar by itself?


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:13 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 15710
Location: The Wild West
^ good advice on the test

CrowMolly wrote:
I'm using Win7 and the Focusrite Liquid 56 interface.

that looks like a pretty sweet interface. just to be sure, are you using the latest Focusrite drivers or ASIO4All?
did this interface work in Cubase?
also, have you gone through all the Windows settings and made sure you're not using a Direct X driver or something like that set to Windows flavors/settings vs. using your audio equipment?

lastly, what's the scoop on the FireWire input? tell us more about it... laptop? desktop? card? expansion? built in?


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:38 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:03 am
Posts: 5
gorskkr wrote:
Since I don't know what your current Live Set looks like, I'll give a suggestion for you to try:

Go to Arrangement view. Put whatever tracks you wish to play along with while you record guitar at the absolute beginning of the timeline (1.1.1). Record arm your guitar track, make sure global record is armed and make sure that you're set to start recording at the appropriate place- the absolute beginning in this case. You should be able to record your guitar and have it play in unison with your other tracks. If this isn't the case then its a latency issue. If it is a latency issue, you can fix it either by ignoring (to the best of your abilities)the delayed sound while you record and then adjusting the track delay setting, or you should buy a better audio interface. EDIT: wrote this before you posted your audio interface- seems like a good one, hmmm...

I'm not quite sure what else your issue might be. hmmm, well, Does your signal sound fine when you play JUST your guitar by itself?

Obviously there is a latency when I just strum the guitar, ie. the sound of the amp model emerges from the speakers a little bit after I hear the direct sound from the pick/guitar, but that is okay as the actual sound of the guitar takes precedence when it comes to keep in time with the other tracks.

I just did a test in which I recorded the Live click with a microphone, and lo and behold, the recording is actually late in the timeline compared to grid.


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:43 pm
Posts: 158
If the recorded click track was delayed when you recorded it, that means that you need to adjust your driver error compensation, which lets ableton adjust the recorded signal accordingly to compensate for the delay from your interface.

Hopefully that should fix your problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:51 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3863
follow the guide in the Live help sidebar. it shows you how to do the loopback test to work out what the driver error compensation value should be.

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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:30 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:04 pm
Posts: 2506
Try Setting monitoring to OFF for the track that you are recording. Otherwise Live works on the assumption that you are playing slightly early to compensate for the latency in the monitor sound - ie it tries to align the recording to what you hear in the monitor not the sound from your instrument itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:41 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:04 pm
Posts: 50
CrowMolly wrote:
Obviously there is a latency when I just strum the guitar, ie. the sound of the amp model emerges from the speakers a little bit after I hear the direct sound from the pick/guitar, but that is okay as the actual sound of the guitar takes precedence when it comes to keep in time with the other tracks.

I just did a test in which I recorded the Live click with a microphone, and lo and behold, the recording is actually late in the timeline compared to grid.



What amp model are you using? What kind of latency does it add? Did it work without tweaking in Cubase?


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 Post subject: Re: Timing problems recording guitars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:57 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:05 am
Posts: 368
CrowMolly wrote:
Obviously there is a latency when I just strum the guitar, ie. the sound of the amp model emerges from the speakers a little bit after I hear the direct sound from the pick/guitar, but that is okay as the actual sound of the guitar takes precedence when it comes to keep in time with the other tracks.


Your sound should be the most possible in time and synced.

Check the overall latency in the audio preferences:
1) buffer size
2) in latency
3) out latency
4) driver error c
5) overall latency <<<<<<<<<<<

Let me know what is your overall latency with 128 buffer size with driver error amount = 0

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