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Do you want return tracks inside groups in Live10?
Poll runs till Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:43 am
Hell yes! It will help to keep my workflow modularized and organized. 20%  20%  [ 2 ]
Yes, but I can live even without this option. 10%  10%  [ 1 ]
No, I don't find this option useful. 60%  60%  [ 6 ]
No, I don't care. 10%  10%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 10
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 Post subject: POLL: do you want return tracks inside groups in Live10?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:43 am 

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 9:27 am
Posts: 33
Hi everyone!
I always found Live routing system limited due to the fact that return tracks cannot be used inside groups. And also the option to route return tracks output to another audio track (BUS) is not viable since it introduces PDC issues.
Think for example if you have a DRUMS group track and you have a drum reverb on a return track and you want to process group + reverb as a whole (e.g. filtering it). How do you do that? At the moment, the only option I see is to put a filter on the master track, which is far from optimal since it will affect all the other tracks. This is just an example, but can be many others.

I really would like to see in Live the possibility to use return tracks inside groups. And you?


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 Post subject: Re: POLL: do you want return tracks inside groups in Live10?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:06 am
Posts: 1031
Speaking of reverb, what sort of PDC issues have you noticed when bussing? When I've needed this, I've just had drum reverbs as regular sends (on the normal return channels), and both the dry drums and the output from those returns go to a "Drums Wet" bus, which can be processed further. At least when speaking of reverb, I haven't noticed any timing troubles?


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 Post subject: Re: POLL: do you want return tracks inside groups in Live10?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:06 am
Posts: 1031
Another way to go about it, and this is in the "workaround" territory: create one return channel solely for processing the combined signal. Make your drums and the drum reverb returns "sends only" :) ... Crank the send of your dry drums to full 0dB into the "combined signal" channel, and adjust the drum sends going into the reverb(s) to taste. On the drum reverb return(s), likewise send full 0dB to "combined signal". You can now add processing on the combined return, containing both the dry drums and reverb output signals, and the result then goes straight to master.


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 Post subject: Re: POLL: do you want return tracks inside groups in Live10?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Posts: 1000
Location: Ableton
You can output return to an audio track without introducing latency. For this you have to disable the destination track’s sends.

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 Post subject: Re: POLL: do you want return tracks inside groups in Live10?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:30 pm 

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 9:27 am
Posts: 33
[jur] wrote:
You can output return to an audio track without introducing latency. For this you have to disable the destination track’s sends.


Yes, but If a return track belongs logically to a group, it should be inside the group and not outside. Think for example a NY compression using sends...it does make much more sense to have that track inside the DRUMS group instead of the "root" level. I think this will let projects be more clean and organized.


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