Training; Your Thoughts

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Harmonic Progression
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Training; Your Thoughts

Post by Harmonic Progression » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:32 am

I have Groove 3 and have done the Ableton Live 9 course. Need to go back and redo it, though because I don't think a lot of it stuck in my head.

What I could really use is a lesson plan with actual assignments (aka "homework" shhhhhh....) to do. That would keep me on track and make me be more accountable to myself so that I might one day use Ableton Live (and my Push) to actually make something that resembles a song.

Any thoughts on other training? Yes, I've seen the Ableton page on training, but haven't really got a good feel for where to begin/continue after Groove 3.
Desktop: Intel i7 hex-core, 64 GB ram, several SSDs, Focusrite Liquid 56, UAD-2.
Laptop: Alienware Area 51: Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, several more SSDs, UAD Apollo Twin.
Software: Win 10, Cubase, Live+Push2, Maschine, and more.

regretfullySaid
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by regretfullySaid » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:09 am

Remix something.
ImageImage

login
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by login » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:36 am

Finish a song, then apply all you have retained.

eyeknow
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by eyeknow » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:38 am

The only thing I can suggest is that you USE live as much as possible and then repetitive steps take more. That said, I too loose knowledge. I get into quandaries from time to time like "can live do this?" and then have to go back somewhere and check (or sometimes ask here)

Harmonic Progression
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by Harmonic Progression » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:52 am

shadx312 wrote:Remix something.
Thank you all. But "remix something", and "finish a song" "and use Live as much as possible", while all good suggestions, are right now things beyond my reality.

I realize this and I'm not afraid to admit it. Hence, the reason for this thread. I don't need a magic "make music now!" pill. I'm willing to do the hard work, even if it takes a long time before I can finish something. I just need suggestions for guided training and guided practice, so that I can start learning in a more structured way at my own pace.

I'm willing to find (and pay for) courses.
Desktop: Intel i7 hex-core, 64 GB ram, several SSDs, Focusrite Liquid 56, UAD-2.
Laptop: Alienware Area 51: Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, several more SSDs, UAD Apollo Twin.
Software: Win 10, Cubase, Live+Push2, Maschine, and more.

re:dream
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by re:dream » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:22 am

And the danger is that you are the target for anyone that wants to sucker you into paying for stuff you don't really need when your real problem may be the self confidence to use what you already know.

If you have done the Ableton Live 9 course on Groove 3 (I have not done it but I have just looked at the headings) you should already know everything you need to know to make a piece of music.

I also understand that it can be intimidating.

So here is your homework:

Just try making a piece of music.
- Make loops (bass, rhythm, melody), no more than 8 tracks. Till you are happy with what you have recorded
- Do a variation of same, maybe with different melody

- Take some elements out to make an intro

- Take some other elements out to make a transition in the middle

- Arrange in sequence

- Export the audio

- Convert to mp3

- Upload to soundcloud

- ask for feedback

- Rinse and repeat.
Last edited by re:dream on Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

re:dream
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by re:dream » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:23 am

Oh and P.S.: enjoy 8)

TomViolenz
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:25 am

Harmonic Progression wrote:
shadx312 wrote:Remix something.
Thank you all. But "remix something", and "finish a song" "and use Live as much as possible", while all good suggestions, are right now things beyond my reality.

I realize this and I'm not afraid to admit it. Hence, the reason for this thread. I don't need a magic "make music now!" pill. I'm willing to do the hard work, even if it takes a long time before I can finish something. I just need suggestions for guided training and guided practice, so that I can start learning in a more structured way at my own pace.

I'm willing to find (and pay for) courses.
If your sign-up date is any indication for how long you have been at it, then you are simply to impatient.

So put me down for a +1 on learning by doing, there is really no better way.

What you could use tutorials for, is when you run into problems that you are aware of. But as to understanding what you need to be aware of, there is no easy way to teach that and no shortcut to learning it.
But the good thing is, playing around and learning Live is FUN :-)

login
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by login » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:51 pm

You really have to try to finish a song, even if it is not as good as you expect, finishg is very important in order to advance your skills.

yur2die4
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by yur2die4 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:24 pm

There is also the manual.

If you are going through these courses, you should hopefully know what the things they are teaching you Mean, and have a pretty good idea of the actual function of the knob or fader someone in a video just tweaked. Or a setting in a clip's properties.

The best way to become familiar with all of the functions by making your way through the manual and actually Applying any detail you come across that intrigues you.

I've seen people stare at YouTube vids for days and not have a clue how people are performing these displays of magic because they haven't taken the time to get to know the instruments or clip settings. And haven't taken a break from the videos to actually make some noise in Live with the concepts that people are dropping on them.

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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by login » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:41 pm

What do you know about music?

When I started trying to make music I didn't know a dime about music theory, or to play an instrument. getting started was very very hard.

I watched and read tutorials on producing (synths, mixing, effects etc) and didn't go anythwere.

Then I started taking piano lessons and it finally everything came together,music first, production skills come after.

If you are unable to start a song maybe you lack musical ideas to work with.

tkarmakid
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by tkarmakid » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:54 pm

Harmonic Progression,

Where are you at right now? Can you play an instrument? Are you having trouble just coming up with material to work with? Or is it mostly Live itself?

You probably learned some stuff on Groove3 about how to work Live9, which ultimately will be reinforced best by using the program (aka hands-on experience) rather than go through the tutorials again. But if it is the music (coming up with original material) then that is another thing altogether.

beats me
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by beats me » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:33 pm

I have a subscription to MacProVideo and have also bought some Groove3 tuts, but what I found way more useful was this.

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Pro-Trainin ... =Logic+Pro

Yes, it’s for Logic but maybe somebody can recommend a book that is similar for Live. What I like about it is it comes with project files and each chapter has you perform tasks to get a finished result. You learn a lot more by doing than just watching videos without on hand experience. If nothing else I’ve remembered a lot more for my own productions from the book than I do from video tuts.

djesa
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by djesa » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:16 pm

Harmonic Progression wrote:I have Groove 3 and have done the Ableton Live 9 course. Need to go back and redo it, though because I don't think a lot of it stuck in my head.

What I could really use is a lesson plan with actual assignments (aka "homework" shhhhhh....) to do. That would keep me on track and make me be more accountable to myself so that I might one day use Ableton Live (and my Push) to actually make something that resembles a song.

Any thoughts on other training? Yes, I've seen the Ableton page on training, but haven't really got a good feel for where to begin/continue after Groove 3.
just start anywhere and keep going until you finish a track completely. give yourself a deadline, and push through until the end. doing and pushing through it to the very end, is the ONLY thing that will help you produce the music you want.

of course you can take some courses or watch some videos, but the only thing that will get you anywhere is by doing.


ive paid for courses before, ive also had piano lessons and learned music theory, but all that did was just help me understand music, it didnt help me make music. i cant stress this enough, just start anywhere, play around and figure it all out for yourself, and follow through until you have completed a track and upload it for other people to listen. this is VERY hard the very first time, but it is the only way to improve. over some time, if you have completed a few tracks in a span of a few months, will you know how to make music and it will flow naturally :)

dont think, just do, and keep at it until it is complete.. this is how you make music :)

Michael Hatsis
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by Michael Hatsis » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:56 pm

I've been teaching Live and Music production in general for about 5 or so years now and I can assure you that It will definitely get you there waaaaaaay quicker. You can def get there without hiring a teacher but will take a bit longer. Obviously this is only helpful if you are doing lessons with someone who knows what they are doing.
For some reason the people on this forum are against paying for time w someone with experience and insight- as can be shown in this thread.
Someone with experience can show you workflows, excercises, good practice, short cuts, answer questions directly... stuff you don't get in the manual. Stuff that you can probably figure out by yourself- but why waste time going through all the trial and error.

Definitely worth it but def spend some time talking to who u hire beforehand. There are alot of people out there who are good with ableton and sound design and mixing or whatever, but can't make music or make really poor music, or have no clue about current trends/styles.
I Learned all I know by myself, but If I could go back I would def hire someone to teach me whats up. Would save a ton of time and will def minimize bad habits.

Also, I'm not lookin to turn this post into an advertisement. Just had to state the other side of the deal.

Mike

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