Training; Your Thoughts

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by TomViolenz » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:08 am

In my opinion, you have studied enough!
What I mean is, if all what you know (and that seems to be very extensive) is not enough to finaly start to create, nothing ever will.
You write that you don't know about song structure, but then give examples about all these different song structures, of which some seem to have non that is easily discernable. Shouldn't the real conclusion here be that song structure is nothing fixed, nothing that should be studied for?! That song structure is something that comes with the flow?!

I would suggest you follow your2die4s suggestion.

Take one element that you like and loop it (that's what Live is very good for) and then add, duplicate, delete, mangle, transpose, rearrange......always following something that speaks to you.
If you don't get stuck in the thinking of what you should do, and rather follow what you want to do, you will know when it's done.
And then it might be a two and a half minute screemer, a five minute banger, a 12 minute new-age, ambient drone or an hour long work that combines all of these elements and that is in your mind a master piece, that tells it ALL. (But no one ever clicks on it on Soundcloud ;-))

Just do it and stop worriyng :-)

Harmonic Progression
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by Harmonic Progression » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:42 pm

TomViolenz wrote:...Just do it and stop worriyng :-)
Thanks man!
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by snakedogman » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:24 pm

I think this is something a lot (most?) people struggle with. You basically have enough knowledge to be making music but somehow it's not happening. What happens? We look online for "tutorials" to learn some new tricks and hope to find some magic inspiration. But as much as I appreciate online tutorials and courses, it can still only teach/show you techniques while I think what is holding most people back (including myself) is just that it's sometimes hard to really push yourself to do something without a clear goal in mind, or to motivate yourself to just finish that track.

Though I have no experience with them myself, I can understand the psychological benefit of doing a paid, and more structured course that will lead to some clear goal ("by the end of this course you will have produced at least 5 tracks" or something like that). Even though the same information provided in the course might be available for free if you look for it, I can understand it's easier to motivate yourself to commit to something that you are paying money for.

King Vortex
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by King Vortex » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:29 pm

Hello. This helped me: ... lI-nO1P959

Also check Craigslist and see if anyone else is offering lessons or maybe there is a Ableton group that meets up once a month to help each other out. I found a group in Cincinnati im going to check out.

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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by djesa » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:16 pm

stop studying and start actually making music! you are wasting time listening to other people, when instead you should be listening to yourself! so what if you don't know this or that, the less you know the more creative you can be. you have to just turn of this "student" mindset that you have, and start not caring and just create your own music. you just have to start with a simple idea, plant a seed and it will grow. you have to start listening to yourself, you have to figure out things for yourself, your limitations will breed your creativity.

if you spend just 2 months, in your own world and not "looking outward" to see how things are done, but instead figuring it out for yourself, you will find the artist in you. obviously you have the passion, so stop questioning yourself and just do. you will learn MUCH more by failing at it yourself many times, then trying to "follow" someone else. it is very easy, just make music. trust me, if you make music for 1 hour a day, my god in 2 months you will be amazed.. you are an artist already, just be it :)

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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by login » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:28 pm

Well if ou have previous music training, and have watched a good number fo tutorials.. you are just procratinanting.

Go and make music, no excuses.

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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:55 pm

If you want to get something out of some of the tutorials you're actually using, try making a new track in the same style as the context of some of those lessons. I think that is sort of the intent of those tutorials. Aside from also offering widely applicable technical advice.

They'll choose a type of sound that a lot of people are curious about for techniques and asking about. Or, they'll simply be doing the practice of choosing a piece that the instructor admires (could be from out of anywhere! Even disco), and then they'll tell you how to do some trademark techniques of those styles.

The next step is supposed to be, attempting to master mocking that exact style. It will always be surprising how simple it sounds in theory, yet how tricky it'll end up being. It'll give you the experience, the 'assignment' and comparison, it'll give you the Frustration that an artist needs. An artist needs to feel frustrated

Frustrated that they have a fire inside them, and they can't get it out. This frustration can come from the constraints of life, or dissatisfaction with the music around them. Their need to convey an idea. When you're spending this time on projects that don't fully excite you, but 'put your in your place' so to speak, it'll make you really anxious to make some noise.

Many of the YouTube vids etc. They work best if you are able to apply them to concepts you already roughly know.

I guess a question is, as mentioned before, are you looking for the inspiration/motivation? Or are you pretty familiar with that realm, and more looking to get extremely Live-specific? (Seeing how it appears you do have experience with other music software).

When it comes to learning Live specifically, you don't want to look at all the audio processing and fx bullshit. You want to understand Session View, Arrangement View, and Clips and clip properties (and warping) first. You may also want to familiarize yourself with it's realtime applications. Using it in realtime can be fun for a jam session or familiarizing yourself, maybe getting ideas, just don't get STUCK in it, maybe have fun making something in realtime and hit record every now and then to capture the ideas.

It'll be easy to get distracted by synthesis/instruments in midi channels and the plethora of options you have with that. Give yourself a little time to mess with it. Same with something like djing, warping tracks from your favorite musicians. Play with that. It is hard to find a specific focus of what to learn because Live is so broad.

List down the things you Could play with. Alot some time to play with those for familiarity, exercise, and to see if they fascinate you and need further investigation. But on your dinner plate, make sure you're prioritizing the main course (which for you is probably that Live is a flexible and intuitive software for Making songs), and make some tracks with the lowest expectations you can find. Don't get trapped

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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by re:dream » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:46 am

yur2die4 wrote: An artist needs to feel frustrated
A very interesting thought, thanks!

(I must be doing something right).

Harmonic Progression
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by Harmonic Progression » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:06 pm

re:dream wrote:
yur2die4 wrote: An artist needs to feel frustrated
A very interesting thought, thanks!

(I must be doing something right).
Well, especially if you are trying to impart frustration or tension in your work (and most of us are, at some point). :twisted:
Desktop: Intel i7 hex-core, 64 GB ram, several SSDs, Focusrite Liquid 56, UAD-2.
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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by estibi » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:02 pm

Harmonic Progression wrote:I have Groove 3 and have done the Ableton Live 9 course. Need to go back and redo it, though because I don't think a lot of it stuck in my head.

What I could really use is a lesson plan with actual assignments (aka "homework" shhhhhh....) to do. That would keep me on track and make me be more accountable to myself so that I might one day use Ableton Live (and my Push) to actually make something that resembles a song.

Any thoughts on other training? Yes, I've seen the Ableton page on training, but haven't really got a good feel for where to begin/continue after Groove 3.
Yes: stop learning, start practicing :)

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Re: Training; Your Thoughts

Post by wildcon » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:24 am

Hi There,

Got to add to the 'Finish a track' view.

This has been the major 'learning' skill for me.

Unfortunately I have trouble doing this in live. Maybe the temptation of session view to just mess around more!

But when I move over to Logic, I find I am far more likely to finish or get close to finishing a song.

Maybe just the Psychology pf the more linear Logic environment for me.

Any way - Good luck :)
MacBook Pro, High Sierra, Live 10, Logic Pro X, Komplete 12, Audio Damage, Fabfilter, Camel, Waves plugs.

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