13" screen sufficient for on the road production?

[TomViolenz]

In my experience, screen real estate on a 13 inch screen is constraining but managable. Just get used using hide / show to keep the interface as uncluttered as possible

A much bigger factor for me is midi controllers.

Mine were a Launchpad and a Nocturn (These two together fit into the sleeve for the MacBook in addition to it!).
Absolutely doable and a very mobile set-up.
(Think airplane economy class tray table mobile Which is a space and weight requirement where Push doesn't even need to apply!)

[Citizen]

In my experience, screen real estate on a 13 inch screen is constraining but managable. Just get used using hide / show to keep the interface as uncluttered as possible

A much bigger factor for me is midi controllers. Unless you want to bring your Push along.

Oh, go no - trying to keep the set-up as minimal as possible.

I get by with Akai's LD8 and LPK and an outboard mouse, and good quality headphones.

A

What about the Akai MPK Mini Portable? Seems like the best of both devices combined?

http://www.djcity.com.au/mpk-mini?gclid ... vAodx1gAxA

As for headphones, I was gonna get by with my sennheiser pods - and just do all my mixing at home. I dont really think I need accurate monitoring to compose and sound design. (if it saves me space in my backpack)

[Citizen]

Mine were a Launchpad and a Nocturn (These two together fit into the sleeve for the MacBook in addition to it!).
Absolutely doable and a very mobile set-up.
(Think airplane economy class tray table mobile Which is a space and weight requirement where Push doesn't even need to apply!)

Thats a great idea - I hadn't thought of the Nocturn. its tiny, and quite flexible from what I understand.

Did you use a custom script for the Launchpad? I wont be doing any performing with this set up - just production - so would the Launchpad have enough relevant functions for production on the road?

[TomViolenz]

Mine were a Launchpad and a Nocturn (These two together fit into the sleeve for the MacBook in addition to it!).
Absolutely doable and a very mobile set-up.
(Think airplane economy class tray table mobile Which is a space and weight requirement where Push doesn't even need to apply!)

Thats a great idea - I hadn't thought of the Nocturn. its tiny, and quite flexible from what I understand.

Did you use a custom script for the Launchpad? I wont be doing any performing with this set up - just production - so would the Launchpad have enough relevant functions for production on the road?

I didn't use a custom script at the time, but probably would do so today. The great thing about the Lauchpad is: you can make it almost do anything via scripts.
I think there are even scripts that combine the Launchpad and the Nocturn into a pseudo Push!

The pads are not velocity sensitive though, so for finger drumming it's not perfect, but everything else is possible.
If you find the the MK1 used somewhere I would get that. They sell for about 80 bucks, while the Launchpad S is more than twice that for almost exactly the same functionality.

Regarding the Nocturn: It has Automap which is a blessing AND a curse. On the one hand it lets you do things with it that are othewise not possible with almost any other controller. On the other hand, you just constantly want to punch your screen whenever you use Automap. It's just extremly pushy software that always gets in the way somehow and never lets you do the things you want to do in the way you want to do them. But then often, you couldn't do these things with any other 8 encoder controller in the first place.....hm

[Citizen]

Regarding the Nocturn: It has Automap which is a blessing AND a curse. On the one hand it lets you do things with it that are othewise not possible with almost any other controller. On the other hand, you just constantly want to punch your screen whenever you use Automap. It's just extremly pushy software that always gets in the way somehow and never lets you do the things you want to do in the way you want to do them. But then often, you couldn't do these things with any other 8 encoder controller in the first place.....hm

Hmmmm. I don't quite follow.

Can you please explain what you mean by this, or perhaps there is an example online that demonstrates these issues for me?

[re:dream]

The AKAI Mini does look nice.

About Automap, my experience is that it fucks with Live's MIDI mapping. It drove me bonkers. I won't touch Novation products as a result. But others like it and have been able to use it successfully.

[TomViolenz]

Regarding the Nocturn: It has Automap which is a blessing AND a curse. On the one hand it lets you do things with it that are othewise not possible with almost any other controller. On the other hand, you just constantly want to punch your screen whenever you use Automap. It's just extremly pushy software that always gets in the way somehow and never lets you do the things you want to do in the way you want to do them. But then often, you couldn't do these things with any other 8 encoder controller in the first place.....hm

Hmmmm. I don't quite follow.

Can you please explain what you mean by this, or perhaps there is an example online that demonstrates these issues for me?

Just two examples.
The first one shows both sides of this.
With Automap you can make mappings for all your plug-ins, covering many pages. And this mapping can be used across different sets and even different DAWs.
This can be very usefull, but keep in mind that the Nocturn has no screen, so if you want to use a mapping of more than one page, you will need to have the HUD open to see what you are actually controlling (which you can open/close easily though from a button on the Nocturn).
The downside: For this to work it has to make wrappers for all your plug-ins. These will totaly clutter up your plug-in browser in Live by giving you an extra copy of each plug-in. (so watch out not to click: wrap all plug-ins, when you install Automap).

Also once installed, Automap will always want to be running. So as soon as you open Live it will open as well and nag you to input your administrator password, because apparently it needs to write to protected files (it never does though, at least as far as I can tell)
The HUD is very obtrusive too, it wants to be always on top, covering everything underneath (very annoying on a laptop screen)

The second example is exclusive to the Nocturn: You can't use the Nocturn without Automap as just a regular Midi controller (you don't have to wrap your plug-ins though)
So when I tried to take over the lower button row of the Nocturn (the ones used to control Automap) with Bomes MT, I couldn't, these buttons are in the grip of Automap and it won't let go!

To re:dream
Only the Nocturn is so annoying about Automap, the Launchpad can be used without it (at least the MK1 could, don't know about the current ones) and if you use it with Automap it only affects User2 mode for which it is actually a usefull tool to make your Midi assignments and gives you the possibility for several pages of Midi assignments for your 64 pads.
So I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater

[Citizen]

so Automap actually sounds like more of a pain in the ass than a help.

I like simple, easy to run set-ups - not uneccesary complexity.

Had a look in the Mac store today at the 13" Mac Book Pros. While they clearly don't have Ableton Live 9 running on their demo models in store, I was able to download some 100% sized image of Live 9 screengrabs and see how they displayed on the 13".

I thought they looked fine and legible, and a workable size.

The Apple dude tried to sell me on the virtues of the Retina display - but I remain skeptical. Does it REALLY make that much of a difference? I was just going to buy a spec'd up 2011 model 13".

[TomViolenz]

so Automap actually sounds like more of a pain in the ass than a help.

I like simple, easy to run set-ups - not uneccesary complexity.

Had a look in the Mac store today at the 13" Mac Book Pros. While they clearly don't have Ableton Live 9 running on their demo models in store, I was able to download some 100% sized image of Live 9 screengrabs and see how they displayed on the 13".

I thought they looked fine and legible, and a workable size.

The Apple dude tried to sell me on the virtues of the Retina display - but I remain skeptical. Does it REALLY make that much of a difference? I was just going to buy a spec'd up 2011 model 13".

Live is not retina ready, so it will actually look worse than on the old screen.
I also support you on the decision for the refurbed model (though a 2012 would be better).
The reason is, Apple is moving away from user replaceable parts. So in the current ones you can't replace the HDD/SDD or the Ram, not even the Battery I think.

I was in a similar situation as you recently and I opted for the refurbished Unibody 2012 MBP 15" precicesly for this reason.
I would not buy it beefed up from Apple though. The good thing about the older models is that you can buy everything after market and put it in yourself to save some major bucks. So buy a low speced one and then give it all the bells and wistles yourself.

(If you can get a quad core I would take that over a dual core, btw)

[Citizen]

Live is not retina ready, so it will actually look worse than on the old screen.

Ahhh....glad I didn't fall for the marketing spin. I didn't know that. I certainly didn't know that apps had to adapt themselves to be retina-ready. Thanks for the heads up.

(though a 2012 would be better).

Really? How so? Not set on getting a 2011 model - just were nice prices on them.

ie:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201119389264 ... 1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/321447978900 ... 1423.l2649

The reason is, Apple is moving away from user replaceable parts. So in the current ones you can't replace the HDD/SDD or the Ram, not even the Battery I think.

Yeah, found that out today at the Apple store. Utter bullshit. He started quoting me prices for a new model, and asked if I'd want extra ram. I told him no bloody way - Apple RAM is notoriously expensive. He pointed out that you can no longer replace the RAM yourself. Fucking Apple.

I would not buy it beefed up from Apple though. The good thing about the older models is that you can buy everything after market and put it in yourself to save some major bucks. So buy a low speced one and then give it all the bells and wistles yourself.

(If you can get a quad core I would take that over a dual core, btw)

Hmmm.... I could do that.... I was looking at some beefed up 2011 models (1GB HD, 16GB RAM i7 etc) and the price was nice enough on them.

Might have to look into the quad core models.

[crumhorn]

Live is not retina ready, so it will actually look worse than on the old screen.

Ahhh....glad I didn't fall for the marketing spin. I didn't know that. I certainly didn't know that apps had to adapt themselves to be retina-ready. Thanks for the heads up.

I don't understand this either - surely a pixel is just a pixel. If the pixels are smaller won't the app just look smaller?

[TomViolenz]

(though a 2012 would be better).

Really? How so? Not set on getting a 2011 model - just were nice prices on them.

ie:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201119389264 ... 1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/321447978900 ... 1423.l2649

Well they updated the intel chips between the two models, it's each time not a huge jump, like 10-15%, but it adds up the further back you go.

Hmmm.... I could do that.... I was looking at some beefed up 2011 models (1GB HD, 16GB RAM i7 etc) and the price was nice enough on them.

Might have to look into the quad core models.

I just kept checking for a couple of weeks in the refurbished section of the Apple store.
So I looked for a 4GB Ram and 500GB HDD model (so I took the least of this stuff from them, saving the most, and invested this saving into a Quadcore i7 (since you can't update the chip)

Now I got a 16gig Ram 512gig SSD quadcore i7 15" directly from Apple for the price of a current dual core i5 4gig Ram and 256gig SSD

Cool is also that the Unibody models still have the DVD drive, which you can swap out for a second HDD or SSD!

[Citizen]

I just kept checking for a couple of weeks in the refurbished section of the Apple store.
So I looked for a 4GB Ram and 500GB HDD model (so I took the least of this stuff from them, saving the most, and invested this saving into a Quadcore i7 (since you can't update the chip)

Now I got a 16gig Ram 512gig SSD quadcore i7 15" directly from Apple for the price of a current dual core i5 4gig Ram and 256gig SSD

Cool is also that the Unibody models still have the DVD drive, which you can swap out for a second HDD or SSD!

All of this is excellent, excellent information. Thank you so much Tom.

I wasn't even aware that there was such a thing as a quad core Mac book.

So which models should I look out for if I want to build a unit similar to yours? When I searched 'quad core mac book' on Ebay, I couldn't find anything.

What sort of price should i expect to pay for this set-up, all up?

[TomViolenz]

I just kept checking for a couple of weeks in the refurbished section of the Apple store.
So I looked for a 4GB Ram and 500GB HDD model (so I took the least of this stuff from them, saving the most, and invested this saving into a Quadcore i7 (since you can't update the chip)

Now I got a 16gig Ram 512gig SSD quadcore i7 15" directly from Apple for the price of a current dual core i5 4gig Ram and 256gig SSD

Cool is also that the Unibody models still have the DVD drive, which you can swap out for a second HDD or SSD!

All of this is excellent, excellent information. Thank you so much Tom.

I wasn't even aware that there was such a thing as a quad core Mac book.

Sorry, I don't think there is, I was referring to the Pro. And all in all it was ca. 1400€ from the store and 1750€ including the Ram and SSD aftermarket buys.

Sorry if I got your hopes up

[Citizen]

Sorry if I got your hopes up

Ha....no problems. At least I didn't begin a fruitless quest for the non-existent quad core mac book pro!

$1750 Canadian dollars? Hmmm...some of those models I found on Ebay are pretty beefed up (1TB HD, 16GB RAM, i7, 7200rpm HD) - I might just roll with that.

Can be had for about $1300 Aussie dollars. (I assuming the exchange rate for Aussie and Canada dollars is approximately 1:1)