PULL Ableton Device/VST controller

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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fishmonkey
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by fishmonkey » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:40 am

and the iPad is using DHCP as well?

also, you can check your local network layout using an app like LanScan or iNet...
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

xmonsta
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by xmonsta » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:08 am

fishmonkey wrote:
xmonsta wrote: Im not sure setting up your LAN manually is a bad idea though, if its a home router. Of course if youre managing 100 PC's in an office setting you probably wouldnt want to manage them all manually. However, giving people a manual IP when they connect to your home network is a sure fire way to make sure they can connect every time.
setting up your local IPs manually is fine if you know what you are doing and you set it up in the router itself. just putting manual addresses into each device is not a good idea though, and not good advice to someone who doesn't even know the difference between LAN and WAN addresses to begin with...
I see what you're saying. However, if you're using DHCP theres a good chance you're going to have to keep inputting the settings for the lemur every time your computer connects (your IP will likely change each time). If you set up manually, you never have to worry about it again. While it takes a bit of time figuring it out at the beginning, it's time well spent if you're regularly connecting through OSC and having problems with DHCP. You can still leave your router on the DHCP setting. If someone tries to connect to your router and they're having problems (getting their IP assigned through DHCP) you just look at all the IP's connected to the network (most people only have a few PCs, Laptops etc) and you punch in a new IP for them manually.
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fishmonkey
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by fishmonkey » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:39 am

most router defaults have pretty long lease times though, so DHCP addresses tend to be pretty stable.

but for the reasons you mention, i reserve addresses for my devices in my router.

if you want to use the method you describe, then it is a good idea to go into the router settings and limit the DHCP server range so that you have a free space to manually work in. the downside of setting the IPs manually though is that when you go to a different network it's likely to not work.

and it would be handy if Lemur allowed the use of hostnames rather than just IPs too...
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

aioffermann
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by aioffermann » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:04 am

Could it be that the "play button" is on? What is the play button?

EDIT: xmonsta, I'd love to set up a skype session if we can't figure this out. Tomorrow perhaps?

xmonsta
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by xmonsta » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:13 am

aioffermann wrote:Could it be that the "play button" is on? What is the play button?

EDIT: xmonsta, I'd love to set up a skype session if we can't figure this out. Tomorrow perhaps?
Hey aioffermann, sure I can set up a skype session tomorrow. Contact us on support@xmonsta.com . We'll get it figured out. It's a pretty straight forward set up once you've done it a few times.

The play button is on the lemur editor. When you open it up in the right hand corner you'll see a play button ">" If this is green, it means you are communicating through the lemur editor to your ipad (you can change stuff on the editor and it will change on your ipad). If this button is green, then you are already connecting to your iPad and subsequent connections wont be allowed (the max device uses the same port as the lemur editor and you cant use them both at the same time).
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xmonsta
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by xmonsta » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:26 am

fishmonkey wrote:most router defaults have pretty long lease times though, so DHCP addresses tend to be pretty stable.

but for the reasons you mention, i reserve addresses for my devices in my router.

if you want to use the method you describe, then it is a good idea to go into the router settings and limit the DHCP server range so that you have a free space to manually work in. the downside of setting the IPs manually though is that when you go to a different network it's likely to not work.

and it would be handy if Lemur allowed the use of hostnames rather than just IPs too...
All very valid points fishmonkey and worth noting for anyone who uses the iPad to connect to Ableton. I guess it comes down to your situation.

Not having problems with DHCP/Automatic IP assigning?
Connecting to outside networks regularly?
Dont mind setting your Lemur IP and Max Device IP sometimes when you connect?

Then go with DHCP/Automatic

Having problems with DHCP assigning addresses like 169.254.x.x (a default network address when ipad cant find your router)
Don't connect to outside networks that often (or don't mind switching on/off the manual IP youve set in your iPad, when you connect to another network)
Dont want to have to set your Lemur IP and Max Device IP sometimes when you connect?
Don't mind knowing the address of each computer connected to your network?

Then go for manual

You know what they say. If you want a family meeting, then go sit in the room the router is in - and turn it off!
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puzzlefactory
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by puzzlefactory » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:06 pm

Haven't bought this yet but I'm thinking of getting later when I get back from work. Would be nice to use this with Lemurs native "Live Control" template. But from what I understand, the templates for Pull take up all of Lemurs internal memory.

Is it possible to remove certain templates (ones which I know I'll never use) in order to make room for the Live control template?

xmonsta
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by xmonsta » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:50 pm

Hi Puzzle factory,

This is why we created send template mode.

The large template (in switch template mode) takes up all the available memory. This is for if you want to use PULL alongside a hardware controller like PUSH, or APC40. In this case, you dont need any other templates on the Lemur because everything else is in done by your hardware.

Send template mode sends a very small template to the lemur. It works perfectly with Livecontrol2, or SHOVE (the PUSH lemur emulation), or any other custom lemur template you want to use. You simply copy a tab into your existing lemur project and you have PULL available in the tab. Send template mode works exactly the same way as switch template mode. However, the difference is, you only load an empty container on the Lemur (no memory taken up). Then when you select devices, the specific template is sent to the Lemur. As soon as you select another device, the old template is deleted and a new one uploaded. Send template mode isnt quite as instant as the switch template mode. However, it's still very fast (takes no more than 1 second to load small templates, and around 2 seconds to load larger templates like operator).
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cotdagoo
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by cotdagoo » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:48 pm

loving this so far! best thing for recording automation from live's devices ever!

can't wait to see how far this goes with vsts and everything else. very exciting

h3rtz
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by h3rtz » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:55 pm

Yes its quite cool. First controller i am actually using in arrangement view (except apc faders).

Couple of things though. Sertting it up can be painfull, especially of u're not really having an idea what you are doing (like me). But support is great so far, i can feel a lot of ambition behind this which is great.

Another thing, i noticed it takes really long to change the order of devices on tracks or order of tracks themselves. My mbp calculates like 30s or more now to perform these actions, wasnt like that without the pull m4l device in the set. Also, i experienced several crashes since pull sits on my master.

I believe this is nothing that cant be improved in a future update. Besides those issues it feels like a quite mature product which deserves respect given its complexity, and it actually does speed up my workflow. I got killer sounds out of operator and analog faster than ever.

I like the direction this whole tochscreen interface is going!

xmonsta
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by xmonsta » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:22 pm

h3rtz wrote:Yes its quite cool. First controller i am actually using in arrangement view (except apc faders).

Couple of things though. Sertting it up can be painfull, especially of u're not really having an idea what you are doing (like me). But support is great so far, i can feel a lot of ambition behind this which is great.

Another thing, i noticed it takes really long to change the order of devices on tracks or order of tracks themselves. My mbp calculates like 30s or more now to perform these actions, wasnt like that without the pull m4l device in the set. Also, i experienced several crashes since pull sits on my master.

I believe this is nothing that cant be improved in a future update. Besides those issues it feels like a quite mature product which deserves respect given its complexity, and it actually does speed up my workflow. I got killer sounds out of operator and analog faster than ever.

I like the direction this whole touchscreen interface is going!
Hi H3rtz,

Glad you like it. I'm exactly the same with it. It's breathed a whole new life into Operator and Analog for me. Although I use PUSH a lot when Im at the computer, I often load a template on the Lemur for managing Ableton, then add PULL as a tab inside the template (using send template mode). I can then sit on the couch making ideas up just using the ipad, without ever touching the mouse or looking at the computer screen.

It sounds like your midi remote script isnt working. One way to check is to start a brand new set. Then load PULL. Then put an operator on a track. Then click the hot-switch button. Now choose two operator presets (that change all the parameters at once). Some of the presets have racks so try to choose ones that are just loading operator presets. Keep switching back and forth between these two presets about 10-20 times. If each time it gets slower and slower you know your midi remote script is not working (it should be instantaneous every time).

If you have this problem, then go to your backup and restore the files in your _MxDCore. Then reinstall the Livelink files (making sure you delete the __init__.pyc file - this has to recompile using the provided __init__.py) and try testing again (you'll need to restart ableton for this)

Also, there is a button on the device for "load/auto", basically if you choose load, the device will do absolutely nothing (will definitely not be working away in the background when you're moving tracks). Then when you push the button "PULL" it will load the selected device template. This might help to speed up your moving of tracks. You can also achieve pressing load by using the "HOLD" button on the Lemur (again the device will do nothing, but hold the current device until PULL is pressed).

Part of the issue might also be to do with the fact that you're using a large device (like operator/analog) on each track. When you select a new track to move it, it's trying to load the device template at the same time and therefore taking a bit of extra time to do all these operations at once. We might implement a change so that when you select a new track, the currently selected device on that track is skipped, and as soon as you select another device, then it kicks back in again.

A better manual with videos etc. is in the works too.
Last edited by xmonsta on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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H20nly
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by H20nly » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:50 pm

fishmonkey wrote:most router defaults have pretty long lease times though, so DHCP addresses tend to be pretty stable.

but for the reasons you mention, i reserve addresses for my devices in my router.

if you want to use the method you describe, then it is a good idea to go into the router settings and limit the DHCP server range so that you have a free space to manually work in. the downside of setting the IPs manually though is that when you go to a different network it's likely to not work.
the router will recognize the device by MAC address. so you can assign the IP based on that. the device will always have the same IP on your network without having to hard code it the device settings... and then having to remove it when you connect elsewhere.

fishmonkey
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by fishmonkey » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:37 am

H20nly wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:most router defaults have pretty long lease times though, so DHCP addresses tend to be pretty stable.

but for the reasons you mention, i reserve addresses for my devices in my router.

if you want to use the method you describe, then it is a good idea to go into the router settings and limit the DHCP server range so that you have a free space to manually work in. the downside of setting the IPs manually though is that when you go to a different network it's likely to not work.
the router will recognize the device by MAC address. so you can assign the IP based on that. the device will always have the same IP on your network without having to hard code it the device settings... and then having to remove it when you connect elsewhere.
using DHCP, a given device will only have a completely fixed IP based on MAC address if a static allocation has been made in the router. however even without static allocation, if your device is regularly on a particular network it will usually have the same IP as default lease times are usually quite long...
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

bytheriver
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by bytheriver » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:08 pm

I went ahead and got this today, took about 10 minutes to set up.

First impressions are: Bloody amazing!
In combination with Push, you really can do almost everything mouse free. I love the ease of adding an audio effect with push to a channel, then having it appear on the ipad in pull for editing. I've tried loads of these type of things before, different ipad programs, lemur templates, the novation automap stuff and so on. All of them ended up being to much hassle for not enough benefit and feeling like a gimmick. Pull is definitely different in that it feels like a really solid, quick and useful addition to Ableton. In fact its more than useful, I've used it for about 15 minutes and already the thought of doing without it is similar to having a hand tied behind my back. Great job.


I do have a couple of issues though:

1) Pull works great, but when I quit live I get a live error as I exit. The save changes dialog box appears, then a 'A serious program error has occurred. Live will shut down after this message box is closed. Please restart live and follow the instructions in the 'report a crash' lesson that will appear in lives's help view' appears.

2) Tapping drum rack pads doesn't do anything (not a big deal for me but just fyi)

puzzlefactory
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Re: PULL - iPad device controller - Speed up your workflow!

Post by puzzlefactory » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:01 pm

On a train at the moment trying to get this to work on an adhoc network and just can't get it to work at all. I've set the ip adresses (although there seems to be no way of altering the iPads port which seems stuck on 8000) but nothing happens when I press the "large" button.

Do I need to delete the templates I have in Lemur or should Pull just come up on the screen anyway? Do I need to do anything in the Lemur editor? Or even have it open?

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