Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:16 pm

casioman11 wrote:
Can anyone advise if their is anyway to solve the performance issues on the macbook or should I just cut my losses and sell it and upgrade to 3.4ghz iMac Desktop? I already find maschine pretty much impossible to run on this computer as a correctly routed plug in but now I'm finding it hard to work with even 2 or 3 vat synths and maybe 3-4 effects vsts.

Did you read the article How to reduce CPU load in Live?

I found some gems there.
Make some music!

Harmonic Progression
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Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by Harmonic Progression » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:28 am

Stromkraft wrote:Did you read the article How to reduce CPU load in Live?

I found some gems there.
Okay, much of that is "the usual". But I have one small problem with the last item. Saying "Disable your WIFI" is giving off a slight whiff on my bullshitometer. Without specific reasons, I call "bogus blanket solution" on that one.
Desktop: Intel i7 hex-core, 64 GB ram, several SSDs, Focusrite Liquid 56, UAD-2.
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fishmonkey
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Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:23 am

Harmonic Progression wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:Did you read the article How to reduce CPU load in Live?

I found some gems there.
Okay, much of that is "the usual". But I have one small problem with the last item. Saying "Disable your WIFI" is giving off a slight whiff on my bullshitometer. Without specific reasons, I call "bogus blanket solution" on that one.
it's good advice. network interfaces and their drivers are common causes of system latency spikes that can cause audio glitches.
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

adam_mc
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Location: Folkestone, Kent

Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by adam_mc » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:49 am

Hi,
I read with real interest your post. I have found my Macbook i7 Quad Core 2.2 Ghz 8GB Ram machine to be performing poorly recently.

I have experienced audio drop outs and the CPU spiking to 75% regularly. I have recently reopened a song I created 2 months ago and played it through and this time it was breaking up although when I made it it was fine.

Either updates to Live or Mac OSX have caused a detrimental effect on the performance of the machine.

There is a thread on here for performance testing of your machine based on audio and reverb channels. I recently did it and my machine performed in line with others. I will do it again and post my results here.

For the first time since getting my mac (2.5 years ago) I feel that I am restricted in my working.

Adam
APM/BPM Folkestone Kent UK

Macbook Pro 2.2Ghz Quad Core i7 8gb Ram, Live 9, Push and other bits and pieces

fishmonkey
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Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:07 am

adam_mc wrote:the CPU spiking to 75% regularly
i think it's worth repeating that the CPU load meter in Live does not tell you how much of your total CPU power is being used. what it tells you is how much of the time available for glitch-free audio processing is being used.
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

adam_mc
Posts: 168
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Location: Folkestone, Kent

Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by adam_mc » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:24 am

1) Ableton Live CPU Meter at 8 tracks - 15%
2) Laptop/Desktop? Make/Model? Macbook Pro i7 Quadcore 2.2 Ghz. 2012
3) Operating System? OSX 10.9.4
4) Ableton Live version? 9.1.4
5) CPU Make, Model, and Speed? 2.2Ghz Intel core i7
6) Amount of Ram? 8gb
7) Soundcard? Saffire 6 (Core Audio Driver)
8) Hard Disk Drive Speed? 5400 - 500GB Apple HDD
9) Max playback tracks? 64
10) 64 or 32bit live? 64
APM/BPM Folkestone Kent UK

Macbook Pro 2.2Ghz Quad Core i7 8gb Ram, Live 9, Push and other bits and pieces

lapieuvre
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Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by lapieuvre » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:35 am

I am surprised that you don't notice a diference between your external 1TB western digital passport, and your internal SSD.

1 big question: is your 2nd SSD a SATA II drive? because if you put a SATA III SSD as a secondary drve you got your problem: 2011 MBP could not use SATA III SSD HD as a secondary drive.

Taken for OWC webste:

"Testing has demonstrated that Apple factory hardware does not reliably support a 6G (6Gb/s) Solid State Drive or Hard Disk Drive in the optical bay of 2011 MacBook Pros (ModeI ID8,1; 8,2; 8,3). If your OWC Data Doubler bundle comes with a 6G drive, you should ONLY install that drive in the main drive bay and utilize the Data Doubler to re-task your existing drive or install a new 3G SSD or HDD in the optical bay. "

Is it your case?
Last edited by lapieuvre on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mac OSX 10.13.6
Live 9.7.6 Suite
Live 10.1.2 Suite
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adam_mc
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Location: Folkestone, Kent

Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by adam_mc » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:35 am

Update:

I have just run test again and found that the results differed only 5 minutes later.

Now 23% for 8 tracks.

Audio breakup at 32 tracks.

Only difference. Machine hotter. Also delay in Bluetooth keyboard typing? Laptop keyboard fine.

Really confused.
APM/BPM Folkestone Kent UK

Macbook Pro 2.2Ghz Quad Core i7 8gb Ram, Live 9, Push and other bits and pieces

adam_mc
Posts: 168
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Location: Folkestone, Kent

Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by adam_mc » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:26 am

I have waited 2 hours for the machine to cool down and done the test again. The original results appear again.

Therefore I can only surmise that the problem is caused by the machine struggling heat wise.

When the machine gets hot, which seems to be caused most regularly by Ableton, things start to grind, even the bluetooth keyboard.

Where next?

Does the OP find there are differences in performance based on the temperature of the machine?

Adam.
APM/BPM Folkestone Kent UK

Macbook Pro 2.2Ghz Quad Core i7 8gb Ram, Live 9, Push and other bits and pieces

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:13 pm

adam_mc wrote:I have waited 2 hours for the machine to cool down and done the test again. The original results appear again.

Therefore I can only surmise that the problem is caused by the machine struggling heat wise.
Your conclusion do appear do be quite shallow. For instance you haven't excluded other sources, like other running processes. Under Mavericks I've had issues with store agent and different indexing processes running wild at certain points, both Spotlight and Dropbox for instance. I've also had the issue where iTunes restarts when quit, so it's always running.

I'm using 2 Macbook Pros, the one below and one from 2010, and have not seen any indications of speed issues what so ever when machine have been working hard for long hours in the studio. If I did I would have talked to an Apple repair shop as I find that abnormal.

We cannot rule out that the CPU in your case is actively set to a lesser performance setting when too hot, but normal heavy use shouldn't cause that. Extreme environments or dirty computers may contribute to such abnormalities.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Make some music!

adam_mc
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Location: Folkestone, Kent

Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by adam_mc » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:20 pm

How would you suggest I should go about giving my conclusions more "depth"?

I have checked the activity monitor to find other things that could be demanding resources (especially cpu) but find nothing.

Cheers,
Adam
APM/BPM Folkestone Kent UK

Macbook Pro 2.2Ghz Quad Core i7 8gb Ram, Live 9, Push and other bits and pieces

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:58 pm

adam_mc wrote:How would you suggest I should go about giving my conclusions more "depth"?

I have checked the activity monitor to find other things that could be demanding resources (especially cpu) but find nothing.
Well, first of all you need some stats on your CPU temperature, like shareware iStat Menus or their dashboard version or Temperature Monitor. Set your phone or something to countdown and eyeball the temp and CPU use every 10 or so while you work on your machine. iStat may plot the trends, I'm not sure. If so that is most useful.

Also, if your machine does seem to run hot, find a reliable mac speed test application and do a cold base test of your CPU and overall performance. Then do it again when you consider the machine hot. If the difference is noticeable you do have a problem that needs solving.

I used SMCFancontrol a few years back when I had heat issues under OS X Lion, But after I downgraded to Snow Leopard and started to always use my Macbook Pro elevated with lots of air under it all strange issues (not basic performance though) I've had disappeared and fans runs as they should. I do think I cleaned the fans a little with a vacuum too. I'm on OS X 10.9.4 now.

These days I'd rather recommend Macs Fan control instead, also free and updated recently.
Make some music!

fishmonkey
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Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by fishmonkey » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:08 am

MacBook Pros need a good internal clean out every year or so, the cooling systems readily fill up with dust and fluff.
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

casioman11
Posts: 18
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Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by casioman11 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:49 pm

Hi I think this might be the problem. Just checked and it is a SATA 3 drive. What do you advise that I do?

Thanks
lapieuvre wrote:I am surprised that you don't notice a diference between your external 1TB western digital passport, and your internal SSD.

1 big question: is your 2nd SSD a SATA II drive? because if you put a SATA III SSD as a secondary drve you got your problem: 2011 MBP could not use SATA III SSD HD as a secondary drive.

Taken for OWC webste:

"Testing has demonstrated that Apple factory hardware does not reliably support a 6G (6Gb/s) Solid State Drive or Hard Disk Drive in the optical bay of 2011 MacBook Pros (ModeI ID8,1; 8,2; 8,3). If your OWC Data Doubler bundle comes with a 6G drive, you should ONLY install that drive in the main drive bay and utilize the Data Doubler to re-task your existing drive or install a new 3G SSD or HDD in the optical bay. "

Is it your case?

lapieuvre
Posts: 711
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:29 pm

Re: Ableton CPU Time To Upgrade?

Post by lapieuvre » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:36 pm

I am surprised that your secondary drive even works, but I read some laptops could support it though it would not perform at full speed. It would work as a Sata II drive.

I don't know what to suggest you, I don't know if thunderbolt HD enclosures exists, but if it does I would go for that, put a Sata III SSD in this and you would solve your Data streaming issue.

Or this http://www.kanexlive.com/thunderbolt-gigabit-ethernet

and use a USB 3 HD enclosure...
Mac OSX 10.13.6
Live 9.7.6 Suite
Live 10.1.2 Suite
Soundcards : FF800, Apollo Twin duo

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