Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Whysolazy?
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:10 am

Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by Whysolazy? » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:50 pm

After selling my copy of Live 9 and trying Cubase 7 I regret and want to come back :oops:

Now after bitwig is out I'm not sure if Live is the best option now .

People speculate that because Ableton's code is very old they wont solve some basic problems like PDC and maybe its better to go to the younger competition that learned from the mistakes and will deliver better product ?

I know that right now Live 9 is better for me than Bitwig 1.0 but the main question is if it worth investing in learning this new daw for the long run ?

Thanks

stoersignal
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by stoersignal » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:52 am

As i'm just arrived from a journey into the future i can tell you: don't invest in any of them, because within the next year there will be a NEW perfect DAW (100% bug free and with all features the whole mankind could imagine) and all other DAWs will vanish. So keep your money in the pocket and save all you can get! It's going to be very expensive but it will be awesome, believe me

Angstrom
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by Angstrom » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:03 am

Whysolazy? wrote: People speculate that because Ableton's code is very old they wont solve some basic problems like PDC
:roll:
You can plainly see them swap out old legacy code in every main version for some new shiny code. EG: They added automation to session, which as everyone knows "required a major rewrite". But that doesn't mean they must tear the whole codebase down to pixeldust and then build the whole thing back up again - it instead means that there's a lot of dependencies to check when something that big gets changed.

Imagine you wrote a book draft, and in Chapter 10 out of 20 one of the characters "Jeff" dies. You get advice to have Jeff survive, so you re-write later chapters with him still in there, doing stuff. Obviously now you can't have Alice say "well, it's a shame Jeff died" in Chapter 12, or have somebody marry Jeff's Widow. So its a bit of a chore, but is it possible to rewrite existing code? Of course it is. It's just a bit of a chore if there's a lot of work to do, and dependencies to check.

As for whether you write a masterpiece or a pile of crap, well that's a whole other matter.

Tagor
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by Tagor » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:19 am

stoersignal wrote:As i'm just arrived from a journey into the future i can tell you: don't invest in any of them, because within the next year there will be a NEW perfect DAW (100% bug free and with all features the whole mankind could imagine) and all other DAWs will vanish. So keep your money in the pocket and save all you can get! It's going to be very expensive but it will be awesome, believe me
Hi Dr. Who - you didn`t crap a copy of those and bring it with u ?

stoersignal
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:43 pm
Location: vienna

Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by stoersignal » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:22 am

Tagor wrote:
stoersignal wrote:As i'm just arrived from a journey into the future i can tell you: don't invest in any of them, because within the next year there will be a NEW perfect DAW (100% bug free and with all features the whole mankind could imagine) and all other DAWs will vanish. So keep your money in the pocket and save all you can get! It's going to be very expensive but it will be awesome, believe me
Hi Dr. Who - you didn`t crap a copy of those and bring it with u ?
Sure, but if i would give it to anybody chances are that the whole world would collapse, so please understand....

login
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by login » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:11 am

Just try bitwig and check for yourself if they really "learned" anything.

Or vist the kvr forum.

TomViolenz
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:03 am

Angstrom wrote:
Whysolazy? wrote: People speculate that because Ableton's code is very old they wont solve some basic problems like PDC
:roll:
You can plainly see them swap out old legacy code in every main version for some new shiny code. EG: They added automation to session, which as everyone knows "required a major rewrite". But that doesn't mean they must tear the whole codebase down to pixeldust and then build the whole thing back up again - it instead means that there's a lot of dependencies to check when something that big gets changed.

Imagine you wrote a book draft, and in Chapter 10 out of 20 one of the characters "Jeff" dies. You get advice to have Jeff survive, so you re-write later chapters with him still in there, doing stuff. Obviously now you can't have Alice say "well, it's a shame Jeff died" in Chapter 12, or have somebody marry Jeff's Widow. So its a bit of a chore, but is it possible to rewrite existing code? Of course it is. It's just a bit of a chore if there's a lot of work to do, and dependencies to check.

As for whether you write a masterpiece or a pile of crap, well that's a whole other matter.
Beautiful 8)

TomViolenz
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:06 am

I would wait until the Occulus Rift and data glove powered virtual reality music apps come out 8O 8)

Coupe70
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by Coupe70 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:17 pm

You mean Jeff is still alive...?! 8O
Phongemeinschaft (Live-ElectroJazz / NuJazz)
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Live 9 (32Bit), HP DV7, i5 2,53GHz, 8 GB RAM, Win7 (64Bit)

braduro
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by braduro » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:50 pm

My stump speech on Bitwig is that they didn't find the right price point for me anyway. I'm thinking more along Renoise, or in the photo editing world pixelmator, where other developers have made modular, cleaner objects and give you a hell of a lot of value for it. Bitwig just doesn't have the consumer confidence to warrant their entry price. Even Live 1.0, controlling for inflation and the strength of the market back then, wasn't that expensive.

Just know what bigwig can do, so you don't logically box yourself in.

kb420
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by kb420 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:10 pm

braduro wrote:My stump speech on Bitwig is that they didn't find the right price point for me anyway. I'm thinking more along Renoise, or in the photo editing world pixelmator, where other developers have made modular, cleaner objects and give you a hell of a lot of value for it. Bitwig just doesn't have the consumer confidence to warrant their entry price. Even Live 1.0, controlling for inflation and the strength of the market back then, wasn't that expensive.

Just know what bigwig can do, so you don't logically box yourself in.
I'm going to have to say that I really agree with this. I think it would have been more widely accepted if it came out with a $99 or $199 price tag. It simply doesn't give you enough bang for your buck at $399. I'm really surprised at how many people bought it at that price.
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

Angstrom
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by Angstrom » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:47 pm

kb420 wrote:
braduro wrote:My stump speech on Bitwig is that they didn't find the right price point for me anyway. I'm thinking more along Renoise, or in the photo editing world pixelmator, where other developers have made modular, cleaner objects and give you a hell of a lot of value for it. Bitwig just doesn't have the consumer confidence to warrant their entry price. Even Live 1.0, controlling for inflation and the strength of the market back then, wasn't that expensive.

Just know what bigwig can do, so you don't logically box yourself in.
I'm going to have to say that I really agree with this. I think it would have been more widely accepted if it came out with a $99 or $199 price tag. It simply doesn't give you enough bang for your buck at $399. I'm really surprised at how many people bought it at that price.

Yeaaaah, you say that but
Pricing
Ableton Live 2 will cost EUR 399 (including VAT) or USD 399 in the USA. Please note that these are Manufacturer Suggested Retail Prices (MSRP). Prices in stores may differ.
https://www.ableton.com/en/pages/2002/l ... ouncement/

Now people will try to say " oh its different times now! Software needs to be magic now, but back then it was all different!" . But in reality Ableton was competing with stuff like Cubase SX, and Logic. They were quite capable systems, with lots of fancy features.

Ableton back then was the plucky underdog, and I didn't buy it because I said "its interesting, but these guys will never last with this thinly featured highly priced software". I remember this, because it was one of the 7 times I have ever been wrong about something. Because here we are. Version 9 .

Moral of story : Don't jump to conclusions about what it takes to survive, or what people can accomplish.

Captain Johnson
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by Captain Johnson » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:46 pm

Angstrom wrote: here we are. Version 9 .

Moral of story : Don't jump to conclusions about what it takes to survive, or what people can accomplish.
+1

H20nly
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by H20nly » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:04 pm

Coupe70 wrote:You mean Jeff is still alive...?! 8O
i can't believe it either!



Live 10 will have a PDC editor button that launches Bitwig.

TomViolenz
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Re: Bitwig , Live 10 , PDC etc ,,.,,,

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:14 pm

Angstrom wrote: I remember this, because it was one of the 7 times I have ever been wrong about something.
That's a pretty decent track record. May I ask what the other 6 times were?! 8)

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