Ableton Forum

After selling my copy of Live 9 and trying Cubase 7 I regret and want to come back

Now after bitwig is out I'm not sure if Live is the best option now .

People speculate that because Ableton's code is very old they wont solve some basic problems like PDC and maybe its better to go to the younger competition that learned from the mistakes and will deliver better product ?

I know that right now Live 9 is better for me than Bitwig 1.0 but the main question is if it worth investing in learning this new daw for the long run ?

Thanks

As i'm just arrived from a journey into the future i can tell you: don't invest in any of them, because within the next year there will be a NEW perfect DAW (100% bug free and with all features the whole mankind could imagine) and all other DAWs will vanish. So keep your money in the pocket and save all you can get! It's going to be very expensive but it will be awesome, believe me

Whysolazy? wrote: People speculate that because Ableton's code is very old they wont solve some basic problems like PDC

You can plainly see them swap out old legacy code in every main version for some new shiny code. EG: They added automation to session, which as everyone knows "required a major rewrite". But that doesn't mean they must tear the whole codebase down to pixeldust and then build the whole thing back up again - it instead means that there's a lot of dependencies to check when something that big gets changed.

Imagine you wrote a book draft, and in Chapter 10 out of 20 one of the characters "Jeff" dies. You get advice to have Jeff survive, so you re-write later chapters with him still in there, doing stuff. Obviously now you can't have Alice say "well, it's a shame Jeff died" in Chapter 12, or have somebody marry Jeff's Widow. So its a bit of a chore, but is it possible to rewrite existing code? Of course it is. It's just a bit of a chore if there's a lot of work to do, and dependencies to check.

As for whether you write a masterpiece or a pile of crap, well that's a whole other matter.

stoersignal wrote:As i'm just arrived from a journey into the future i can tell you: don't invest in any of them, because within the next year there will be a NEW perfect DAW (100% bug free and with all features the whole mankind could imagine) and all other DAWs will vanish. So keep your money in the pocket and save all you can get! It's going to be very expensive but it will be awesome, believe me

Hi Dr. Who - you didn`t crap a copy of those and bring it with u ?

Tagor wrote:

stoersignal wrote:As i'm just arrived from a journey into the future i can tell you: don't invest in any of them, because within the next year there will be a NEW perfect DAW (100% bug free and with all features the whole mankind could imagine) and all other DAWs will vanish. So keep your money in the pocket and save all you can get! It's going to be very expensive but it will be awesome, believe me

Hi Dr. Who - you didn`t crap a copy of those and bring it with u ?

Sure, but if i would give it to anybody chances are that the whole world would collapse, so please understand....

Just try bitwig and check for yourself if they really "learned" anything.

Or vist the kvr forum.

Angstrom wrote:

Whysolazy? wrote: People speculate that because Ableton's code is very old they wont solve some basic problems like PDC

You can plainly see them swap out old legacy code in every main version for some new shiny code. EG: They added automation to session, which as everyone knows "required a major rewrite". But that doesn't mean they must tear the whole codebase down to pixeldust and then build the whole thing back up again - it instead means that there's a lot of dependencies to check when something that big gets changed.

Imagine you wrote a book draft, and in Chapter 10 out of 20 one of the characters "Jeff" dies. You get advice to have Jeff survive, so you re-write later chapters with him still in there, doing stuff. Obviously now you can't have Alice say "well, it's a shame Jeff died" in Chapter 12, or have somebody marry Jeff's Widow. So its a bit of a chore, but is it possible to rewrite existing code? Of course it is. It's just a bit of a chore if there's a lot of work to do, and dependencies to check.

As for whether you write a masterpiece or a pile of crap, well that's a whole other matter.

Beautiful

I would wait until the Occulus Rift and data glove powered virtual reality music apps come out

You mean Jeff is still alive...?!

My stump speech on Bitwig is that they didn't find the right price point for me anyway. I'm thinking more along Renoise, or in the photo editing world pixelmator, where other developers have made modular, cleaner objects and give you a hell of a lot of value for it. Bitwig just doesn't have the consumer confidence to warrant their entry price. Even Live 1.0, controlling for inflation and the strength of the market back then, wasn't that expensive.

Just know what bigwig can do, so you don't logically box yourself in.

braduro wrote:My stump speech on Bitwig is that they didn't find the right price point for me anyway. I'm thinking more along Renoise, or in the photo editing world pixelmator, where other developers have made modular, cleaner objects and give you a hell of a lot of value for it. Bitwig just doesn't have the consumer confidence to warrant their entry price. Even Live 1.0, controlling for inflation and the strength of the market back then, wasn't that expensive.

Just know what bigwig can do, so you don't logically box yourself in.

I'm going to have to say that I really agree with this. I think it would have been more widely accepted if it came out with a $99 or $199 price tag. It simply doesn't give you enough bang for your buck at $399. I'm really surprised at how many people bought it at that price.

kb420 wrote:

braduro wrote:My stump speech on Bitwig is that they didn't find the right price point for me anyway. I'm thinking more along Renoise, or in the photo editing world pixelmator, where other developers have made modular, cleaner objects and give you a hell of a lot of value for it. Bitwig just doesn't have the consumer confidence to warrant their entry price. Even Live 1.0, controlling for inflation and the strength of the market back then, wasn't that expensive.

Just know what bigwig can do, so you don't logically box yourself in.

I'm going to have to say that I really agree with this. I think it would have been more widely accepted if it came out with a $99 or $199 price tag. It simply doesn't give you enough bang for your buck at $399. I'm really surprised at how many people bought it at that price.

Yeaaaah, you say that but

Pricing
Ableton Live 2 will cost EUR 399 (including VAT) or USD 399 in the USA. Please note that these are Manufacturer Suggested Retail Prices (MSRP). Prices in stores may differ.

https://www.ableton.com/en/pages/2002/l ... ouncement/

Now people will try to say " oh its different times now! Software needs to be magic now, but back then it was all different!" . But in reality Ableton was competing with stuff like Cubase SX, and Logic. They were quite capable systems, with lots of fancy features.

Ableton back then was the plucky underdog, and I didn't buy it because I said "its interesting, but these guys will never last with this thinly featured highly priced software". I remember this, because it was one of the 7 times I have ever been wrong about something. Because here we are. Version 9 .

Moral of story : Don't jump to conclusions about what it takes to survive, or what people can accomplish.

Angstrom wrote: here we are. Version 9 .

Moral of story : Don't jump to conclusions about what it takes to survive, or what people can accomplish.

+1

Coupe70 wrote:You mean Jeff is still alive...?!

i can't believe it either!



Live 10 will have a PDC editor button that launches Bitwig.

Angstrom wrote: I remember this, because it was one of the 7 times I have ever been wrong about something.

That's a pretty decent track record. May I ask what the other 6 times were?!