Ableton Forum

TomViolenz wrote:

Angstrom wrote: I remember this, because it was one of the 7 times I have ever been wrong about something.

That's a pretty decent track record. May I ask what the other 6 times were?!

well, one time I was really sure that Ableton were going to make an amazing new browser that served the varied needs of their disparate customers, partly because I knew that Robert Henke shared my concerns about the lack of ways to flip presets on stage. Partly because I knew Ableton met with DJs and Live performers all the time, and they were surely inundated with requests for deep ID3, tagging and grouping features from that market alone.
But mainly I was convinced because I knew Ableton had years of experience of seeing their competitor's efforts in managing large databases of disparate content (NI Kore, Steinberg Mediabay), all using filtering and sorting to deliver meaningful apposite results.
I knew Ableton had top minds and great programmers, and a background in powerful simple UI design. I knew that Ableton recognised that hierarchic representations of non-hierarchic data was an OLD idea, and so I was sure they'd find a way to represent data by cogent-attribute rather than by location.

I was very sure they were going to make a fantastic browser which focused on giving their various users the power to search, sort, filter and group content - to annotate it, preview it, and more. It was going to be amazing.

I was wrong. It can happen to anyone, apparently.

you were not just wrong, you were so fucking wrong.

just pulling your leg here "....about something" sounds pretty general. I managed your "7 times having been wrong about something", with career choices or women alone

TomViolenz wrote:just pulling your leg here "....about something" sounds pretty general. I managed your "7 times having been wrong about something", with career choices or women alone

So you are still way better than me

I may have a revisionist's version of history-I was working on a campus when I first bought into Live. But the only time I bought the standard suite at that price what when I ordered the install disks and session kits by version 4.

No, I don't mean to undermine bigwig. And all your points are very valid. Look, I came into Live by version 2, so you know I needed to let things play out for a bit. I knew what it did and didn't do. It actually promised much more in my imagination: from the marketing material, I thought it was designed to be an event board, like Qlab and therefore make every crew member's roll on a stage more like the performer's.

But my admitted bias also comes from the belief that history doesn't really repeat itself, not in a rote manner at least. So from my perspective the ableton life-cycle, and being wrong or right that time, doesn't really apply. To top it off, there was such a limbo of ghostware trickling from bigwig that I think there's still a sense of unreality about it for me. The best thing for them I think would be to get some profiled, public-figure players to switch over. Even this boutique WaveDNA and liquid rhythm bust their asses to get artist profiles, dialog at events, competitions, entries to festivals and the like. And their flagship product needs less introduction as an authentically innovative product. Bitwigs marketing material, i.e. their example sessions, do not perk my imagination.

Remember too that ableton had all that: so many electronic artists associated with it as a live platform. Irregardless of where those first headliners went and what shook them (for those of us on this forum I think we can guess), ableton still had that association and therefore elbowed into their market share.

Also, a young cat like yourself can report CPU load for two comparable sessions. That would sway some performance-exclusive users of live perhaps. Live doesn't really ask much of it's laptopers these days so bigwig could try get the dj hold-outs to jump ship (If there's any left after Traktor and Serato.)

If the first step is going to be that a company builds a daw for the production studio, I don't care personally if it has a realtime editing workflow, there's just so many options in the field right now to compete with, some free. Ableton was never promising to compete with them head on.

braduro wrote:My stump speech on Bitwig is that they didn't find the right price point for me anyway. I'm thinking more along Renoise, or in the photo editing world pixelmator, where other developers have made modular, cleaner objects and give you a hell of a lot of value for it. Bitwig just doesn't have the consumer confidence to warrant their entry price. Even Live 1.0, controlling for inflation and the strength of the market back then, wasn't that expensive.

Just know what bigwig can do, so you don't logically box yourself in.

They will probably drop the price over time. One knock is that they don't seem to ever have it on sale. I felt the same way when Studio One came out. They put it on sale or have deals on upgrades.

If you like playing around with other DAWs, The new Tracktion is nice cheap DAW.

I also think for a first time purchase Live is over priced. I finally got it when Ableton had it on sale for $225 if you owned one of those free version. I also bought another license with an edu discount. It's a lot of fun for me since I used linear DAWs for a long time.

Whysolazy? wrote:After selling my copy of Live 9 and trying Cubase 7 I regret and want to come back

Now after bitwig is out I'm not sure if Live is the best option now .

People speculate that because Ableton's code is very old they wont solve some basic problems like PDC and maybe its better to go to the younger competition that learned from the mistakes and will deliver better product ?

I know that right now Live 9 is better for me than Bitwig 1.0 but the main question is if it worth investing in learning this new daw for the long run ?

Thanks

Why? I could see Live is dongle free. Cubase is a great app but that and Live seem so different.

kitekrazy wrote:

braduro wrote:My stump speech on Bitwig is that they didn't find the right price point for me anyway. I'm thinking more along Renoise, or in the photo editing world pixelmator, where other developers have made modular, cleaner objects and give you a hell of a lot of value for it. Bitwig just doesn't have the consumer confidence to warrant their entry price. Even Live 1.0, controlling for inflation and the strength of the market back then, wasn't that expensive.

Just know what bigwig can do, so you don't logically box yourself in.

They will probably drop the price over time. One knock is that they don't seem to ever have it on sale. I felt the same way when Studio One came out. They put it on sale or have deals on upgrades.

If you like playing around with other DAWs, The new Tracktion is nice cheap DAW.

I also think for a first time purchase Live is over priced. I finally got it when Ableton had it on sale for $225 if you owned one of those free version. I also bought another license with an edu discount. It's a lot of fun for me since I used linear DAWs for a long time.

Its only been a couple months. Im fully expecting at least a 30% off sale round the holidays

Yes, that's the right of it-I've been buying the upgrade price for quite some time. As a previous max owner, the promos that Live had that first spring when they incorporated all the devices plus m4l into the suite price but not standard, they practically forced my hand. But yeah, I could see how Live feels expensive now. Meanwhile, to continue my parallel point, Liquid Rhythm has given folks ample opportunity to get in early and to be rewarded for it. Logic is supposed to have some of the most generous bundle of synths and midi handling of any DAW, and it's $199, and I still think I'd like to wait for some iTunes credit before buying it. (If you haven't guessed, I'm not a $12 sandwich sort of guy.

braduro wrote: Logic is supposed to have some of the most generous bundle of synths and midi handling of any DAW, and it's $199, and I still think I'd like to wait for some iTunes credit before buying it. (If you haven't guessed, I'm not a $12 sandwich sort of guy.

Logic was much more expensive before, it's price shouldnt be used by used as comparission to other daws value since it's subsidized by Apple.

login wrote:

braduro wrote: Logic is supposed to have some of the most generous bundle of synths and midi handling of any DAW, and it's $199, and I still think I'd like to wait for some iTunes credit before buying it. (If you haven't guessed, I'm not a $12 sandwich sort of guy.

Logic was much more expensive before, it's price shouldnt be used by used as comparission to other daws value since it's subsidized by Apple.

^This

TomViolenz wrote:

Angstrom wrote: I remember this, because it was one of the 7 times I have ever been wrong about something.

That's a pretty decent track record. May I ask what the other 6 times were?!

Probably Version 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8.

login wrote:

braduro wrote: Logic is supposed to have some of the most generous bundle of synths and midi handling of any DAW, and it's $199, and I still think I'd like to wait for some iTunes credit before buying it. (If you haven't guessed, I'm not a $12 sandwich sort of guy.

Logic was much more expensive before, it's price shouldnt be used by used as comparission to other daws value since it's subsidized by Apple.

The painful memories.......

@OP Sounds like you need to just GET ON WITH IT, and get some results, instead of pissing into the air. Advice I should follow right now.