renowned vst synths vs. Ableton built-in instruments

[tob_]

Hello,

I have a simple question:
what is the advantage of a vst synth as opposed to built-in instruments in Live?

Let me elaborate.. I have Ableton Live Suite, so i have access to the very low level instruments Operator, Analog, Electric, .. I am just starting off in the musical field and don't have any experience as of yet. Now I am longing for getting a woodwindy plucky kind of sound like the leads in Kygo's mixes - whom I enjoy listening to lately. I hear Nexus 2, sylenth1 can do the trick..



After trying some demos, some more particular questions arise:

_ What can a vst synth do, that I cannot achieve with my low level utilities? I am under the impression that there are simply oscillators 1 and 2, some ADSR, some filters and some lfo involved in these synths. Why doesn't somebody anybody clone this "sylenth1" style within Ableton Live with all the knobs and sliders repectively? You could also transfer the nice presets. Unless there is some deeper knowledge that is required for the the development and design of the renowned vsts. Is there something that I miss?

_ "low level" is - at least in my opinion - generally associated with versatility, flexibility but also a steep learning curve. Where lies its limit? Ultimately, my question becomes: How far can I get with my Ableton Live suite without buying a synth vst?


Best regards,
T.

[filter_7]

You can produce professional music with Operator and Analog only, with the addition of drums, but this is only a matter of taste and it's about music production.

However if you want a very big Dnb lead it's easier to have it in a Sylenth preset than in Analog, because you have it 'ready made'. Speaking about low level I think this is the only advantage of a vst. In Live you can stack synths in a rack, add some effects (delay and chorus) and you'll have a big lead too.

So my advice is have some fun with one vst of your choice (you can try the demo and check if this is what you want), and in the meantime see some tutorial about Live's synths that are very powerful if you want to go deeper in sound design.

[doghouse]

The advantage to using a third party VST over the included instruments is that it might sound better or it might be able to do something that none of the included instruments. What that makes so many people feel that the included instruments aren't very good is they don't come with thousands of killer presets.

If Ableton signed on big name sound designers like Eric Persing, Rob Papen, Richard Devine, Howard Scarr, etc. a lot of people would be shocked what can actually be done. As it stands, you must design sounds from scratch rather than just calling up "radio ready" presets.

[v00d00ppl]

To really get the most out of analog try these tutorials out
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

[deva]

Analog and Electric are VST synths (Made by AAS). Operator is an excellent FM synth.

There is no real difference between VST's and Live's instruments. So you may as well ask about having 3 VST synths and can I make the sound from VST X... Lots of synths have unique sweet spots and character.

[jbw]

You can get plenty far with Live's synths, and building with Live's instrument rack.

A good VST synth however will offer you something unique, something you probably couldn't build yourself without a lot of training and/or experience. It will also save you the time and energy in building that synth.

[login]

It's just a matter of taste really.

IMHO ABleton instruments advantage is their integration in live interface and if you use push it is easier to controll them.

That being said there are some vst's that can do more that live's instruments. For example u-he diva has an analog sound neither analog or operator can achieve.

But in the ends is about being confortable and like what you use.

[Colorshape]

A good VST synth however will offer you something unique...

...yes, being able to use PROGRAM-Changes for example

[Machinesworking]

To be quite honest, it's that a good VSTi will sound great on it's own, it's internal sound FX and parameters will allow this.
Suite instruments in general require reverb. chorus, delay etc. in order to sound the same.

As mentioned some VSTi have filters and oscillators that just sound good on their own.

Some VSTi have no comparison in Live. MachFive3, Diva, Iris, Absynth etc. are unique in their capabilities.

The AAS versions of Analog, collision, Tension etc. have dozens of extra parameters.


None of this says you can't do good things in Live, and a real advantage of the Live instruments is that no matter how many years pass, Live will always be able to load those VSTi. NI for example require you to have Kontakt 3 loaded into a Set in order to open a Set made with Kontakt 3, Kontakt 5 will not be recognized. So in the case of some song idea you shelve, you can easily go back to that song you made in Live 7 with Sampler, whereas if you use Kontakt 3 you will have to load Kontakt 3 into your system, reinstall Live as 32 bit and then port the whole thing over to Kontakt 5, save and open Live 9 64 bit with the sounds in Kontakt 5. <-- That is the only real advantage IMO of embedded instruments, since as people notice Ableton doesn't do much in the way of presets showing off what their embedded instruments can do, and has mad them simpler than what you get when you buy the VSTi version.

[Martin Gifford]

I regret using Ableton instruments. Now I have a lot of started tracks that need fixing if I can get around to it. As soon as I left the convenience behind and went for Sylenth and then Zebra, my tracks improved dramatically, and I enjoyed it a lot more. I wouldn't even think of going to Ableton instruments now. I wish I bought standard Ableton, Sylenth, and Zebra. BTW, I wish Ableton and Sylenth, oh and Novation Impulse, weren't so ugly.

[yauluhim]

I agree with the users that day analog and operator are very capable instruments. I can get huge sounding supersaws and mean basses from both analog and operator, and the possibilities only grow when you stack them in instrument racks. The only thing i feel analog could improve upon is having 8 voices instead of just 4. But again, it doesn't matter since you can layer as much analogs as you want.

It's like the cliche says - it's not the tool, it's what you do with it.

[beats me]

You can get everything you need out of Live’s built in instruments as long as you are only composing Minimal Techno or Cosm Trance.

[pencilrocket]

lol