Creating Complex Synths

[yake]

Hey board,
I'm new to this stuff. I want to make complex synths that change as they linger. Similar to the motionsynth stuff in korg controllers. I figured out how to chain the synths, for instance strings + bass + the rhythmic synth "ceramic streetwear." However, I want "ceramic streetwear" to only come in after a few seconds of holding down the keys on my controller. I thought playing with attack would help but it just changes the tonality of the synth I want the synth to keep its sound, just come in late.

is there a way to do this?

Thanks.

[mikb]

Hey board,
I'm new to this stuff. I want to make complex synths that change as they linger. Similar to the motionsynth stuff in korg controllers. I figured out how to chain the synths, for instance strings + bass + the rhythmic synth "ceramic streetwear." However, I want "ceramic streetwear" to only come in after a few seconds of holding down the keys on my controller. I thought playing with attack would help but it just changes the tonality of the synth I want the synth to keep its sound, just come in late.

is there a way to do this?

Thanks.

Just what is "ceramic streetwear"? I can't google it as nothing comes up.

Anyway, are you positive you actually changed the attack of the amplification, i e the VCA Envelope in this "ceramic streetwear" ? It sounds to me you changed the attack of the filter or something else. Or is it something directly in Live that you changed? If the latter, please describe in more detail how you've set things up and what you're expecting it to sound like.

[yake]

Thanks for the response, mikb. "Ceramic Streetwear" is from an Ableton pack called Samplification. It's in my instrument rack under > Synth Rhythmic. I don't think the specific sound is as important as understanding the process for creating chains. So what I'm trying to do is to get one sound in the chain to come in after some time. Either sync'd with the tempo (ex: 1/8 note) or by time (ex: after seconds). I want the sounds to morph with longer key-presses. There was a link in my original post re: motionytnth by korg that may help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8reLLV_-wXU

or this diagram:

key press affects chain:
0sec 1 1.5 2 2.5 3 3.5
+Strings............................
+Bass...............
+ rhythm synth.......

I don't know what vca envelopes are or how to find them. I'd like it to apply to other types of synths/effects as well. For example, I'd like to do something where, if I press for more than 2 seconds it will start arpeggiating. (Maybe that is a different question though).

Does this make sense?

[mikb]

Thanks for the response, mikb. "Ceramic Streetwear" is from an Ableton pack called Samplification.

I don't know what vca envelopes are or how to find them. I'd like it to apply to other types of synths/effects as well. For example, I'd like to do something where, if I press for more than 2 seconds it will start arpeggiating. (Maybe that is a different question though).

Does this make sense?

In this case I think it's perhaps better to get to the proper attack control in Sampler, as this is a Sampler pack. The attack macro knob you see in this patch is actually connected to what I called the VCA, which is represented in the "Filter/Global" panel in the volume envelope to the right. The values are mapped and are perhaps not in the range you need.

To fix this go into Macro Mappings by clicking on "Map" above the macro knobs. Find the attack among the mappings and look at the Min / Max values to the right. Choose the proper range for you. Click "Map" again.

Test the Attack again. I also needed to move the "Time" knob to 0% or more and set Vol < Vel to a lower value. Experiment with these and see if that helps with delaying the attack.

I realize I don't fully get what you want to build, except it's a multi-instrument rack of sorts. It's possible a mixer of your instrument collection controlled with your own envelope generator would be more useful, but I'm leaving you with this for now.

[prebentious]

How about putting a delay effect on the chain? 100% wet, 0% feedback

[mikb]

How about putting a delay effect on the chain? 100% wet, 0% feedback

Because learning how the synths works is more rewarding. In this case it gives more control as well over more parameters than time.

And if I would use a delay for something like this, I would use a MIDI delay.

[Mr Man]

what synth are you using?

uhe zebra2 has multi stage envelope generators (mseg). You should check that out.

[mikb]

I thought playing with attack would help but it just changes the tonality of the synth I want the synth to keep its sound, just come in late.

is there a way to do this?
.

I started thinking about using specific envelope generators in a multi-instrument like yours and I remembered all the Max devices that are around — I just recently bought "Dub Machines", a tape delay emulating Max device that I love — and now I found Architect in the Max Device Library.

An Envelope Generator can be routed to volume pretty much in the same fashion as a VCA in a synthesizer. A specific envelope generator would give you one place to fade in and out synth voices coming from different synths that you place in parallel chains in your Instrument rack. I haven't tried Architect yet, but possibly you could also have dynamic control over the envelopes. You could also use several.