NI Komplete Kontrol

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Machinesworking
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:44 am

Syver wrote: Who is trolling ?

Can you at least keep the discussion focused on music production and not bring Microsoft into this ?
Oh come on really? You went off the topic of music production by stating that all companies of any worth are merging hardware with software these days. You're the one equating the amount of employees to the value of a company. It was a weak argument and you lost the plot.

Syver
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by Syver » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:00 am

Machinesworking wrote:
Syver wrote: Who is trolling ?

Can you at least keep the discussion focused on music production and not bring Microsoft into this ?
Oh come on really? You went off the topic of music production by stating that all companies of any worth are merging hardware with software these days. You're the one equating the amount of employees to the value of a company. It was a weak argument and you lost the plot.
I was not the one who started talking about successful companies and the subject of controllers and VSTs is very much a music producing topic.

sporkles
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by sporkles » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:44 am

Syver wrote: I was not the one who started talking about successful companies and the subject of controllers and VSTs is very much a music producing topic.
Oh, really?
Syver wrote: Dedicated controllers are needed if you want to sell software these days, the keyboards are here to revive interest in the Komplete product range.
Syver wrote: Really, supporting facts ?

# of Spectrasonics employeess ? less than 50. The company has not released a new product since 2009 !

# of of U-He employees ? : I quote 'u-he used to be a one-man show – just Urs! But now we are a team... That's Urs Heckmann, Howard Scarr, Sascha Eversmeier, Rob Clifton-Harvey and Sebastian Greger' that's 5 !

# of NI employees: 400 !

NI, Roland, Arturia, Ableton ... the major player are all going down the hybrid route.
I get it - I really do: to you, a company like U-He can only be deemed successful if they make a hardware controller for Zebra and hire a couple of hundred people - even though a tiny team of developers is doing this very well as it is. I just don't see any point in carrying on this discussion.

TomViolenz
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:12 am

sporkles wrote: I get it - I really do: to you, a company like U-He can only be deemed successful if they make a hardware controller for Zebra and hire a couple of hundred people - even though a tiny team of developers is doing this very well as it is. I just don't see any point in carrying on this discussion.
To me his argument reads the other way around.
A big company like NI needs a different and more reliable income structure, while small companies, through self exploitation and greater flexibility get away with doing software only. (It would probably also be very difficult for a small outfit like U-He to contract out the sort of construction and assembly that a controller would need.)

I think his argument makes sense, and that you and Machinesworking are misunderstanding it (on purpose?!)

jlgrimes
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:46 pm

I kind of disagree with the idea of big companies having to focus on selling hardware over software to really make money.

One of the advantages of software over hardware is that it takes up no physical room other than hard drive space.

I think this makes it more likely for someone to splurge of software even if they don't need it.

Hardware takes up space, so a small bedroom producer even if he wanted knows he can't have a huge room of modular synths in his 10x10 bedroom.

This will cause the bedroom producer to be even more pickier on his hardware choices as he don't physically have the space to buy too much gear over software stuff.

I think the NI controllers have a market for folks who aren't interested in a Maschine controller but still want some good integration with NI synths.

But I don't see many existing Maschine owners going out to get this especially if they already have a keyboard controller that they like.


I think with properly priced software and well designed software that fills a certain niche has the potential to be very profitable.

It probably is also a better business model than creating hardware in some instances as there is a limit in the amount of hardware someone can buy before replacing their existing hardware. So if you come out with hardware, it better be good.

login
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by login » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:15 pm

I think companies have choosen to make hardware to increase their revenue in part because of piracy. They also discover that people are actually pretty interested in the integration aspect. Arturia for exmaple started to make controlllers and then integrated products.

Also to make hardware requires quite an invesment and some companies may not be at the point of doing it still.

Also, u-he is one of the least pirated companies outhere so I don't think they are in a hurry to make hardware. Hope someday I can have diva as a hardware synth (at the same price as a virus ti).

beats me
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by beats me » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:46 pm

It’s the Apple business model. Sell hardware that sort of works with other software but works best within your own ecosystem.

TomViolenz
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:37 pm

jlgrimes wrote:I kind of disagree with the idea of big companies having to focus on selling hardware over software to really make money.

One of the advantages of software over hardware is that it takes up no physical room other than hard drive space.
In a perfectly honest world?! Yes!!!

In our world? It's much more difficult to shoplift one of these machines than to find a crack of whichever software you desire.
Therefore it's much more reliable income to sell hardware over software.

That's the real reason why so many companies focus on hardware integration now.

ambientidm
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by ambientidm » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:44 am

Machinesworking wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
stoersignal wrote:that`s really dissappointing! who needs more midi-keyboards and piano samples??? where is Massive2, Absynth 6 and Reaktor 6?
What kind of whiz kid are you to not find the current Reaktor to be worthy of a life time career?
So Reaktor is perfect then and has no room for improvement?

Plus why single out Reaktor? Massive could benefit from some enhancements and tweaks, so could Absynth, Guitar Rig is IMO getting it's ass handed to it by Amplitube etc. I'm not really invested in this, but it's a pretty boring update if you're not especially excited about the new keyboards.
what they should do is have a sample based line with Kontakt and have everything else built into reaktor. How cool would be cross hybridize absynth with molekular or combine massive with razor.

ambientidm
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by ambientidm » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:47 am

Machinesworking wrote:
Syver wrote:
Machinesworking wrote: but it's a pretty boring update if you're not especially excited about the new keyboards.
Dedicated controllers are needed if you want to sell software these days, the keyboards are here to revive interest in the Komplete product range.

They will open up new possibilities and new markets. Why not use the lights on the keybed for piano lessons for example ?

This in turn could make the updates you are calling for a reality.
The first part, not true at all. U-He is doing great with zero dedicated hardware, so is Alchemy, Omnisphere etc.
alchemy and omnisphere both have hardware via ipad apps
omni-tr is absolutely brilliant!

beats me
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by beats me » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:55 pm

I briefly thought it might be cool to get the 25 key version for just the Komplete control but then the sticker shock really hit me. $500 for a two octave controller? That’s insane. At $300 it would still be pushing what’s acceptable. At least with the 49+ key versions you can somewhat convince yourself you are getting more bang for your buck. :x

And when was it decided that little bumps in tech or accessibility should be priced in increments of $100 even when it doesn’t cost that much more to manufacture. :x

Machinesworking
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:16 am

ambientidm wrote: alchemy and omnisphere both have hardware via ipad apps
omni-tr is absolutely brilliant!
An iPad is not a dedicated controller for a soft synth anymore than a computer is designed specifically for a DAW.

I mean I'm happy they do it, but it in no way makes my point any less valid that saying you have to have dedicated hardware for your software product now is a silly statement.

mothergarage
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by mothergarage » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:43 am

Just installed the software - and it crashes in Live. Anybody else with this problem?
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crystalmsc
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by crystalmsc » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:56 am

ambientidm wrote:alchemy and omnisphere both have hardware via ipad apps
omni-tr is absolutely brilliant!
Alchemy mobile is also no less impressive, specially since it's also doubled as a portable version of the synth, not just as a controller. The remix pad is complementing each other with the ORB in Omni-TR which is a bit on the random side, while the remix pad has a more predictive result. Both are among the most impressive touch controller and omni-tr is even free. In the early Lemur Jazzmutant era, this kind of versatility is almost forbidden.
Machinesworking wrote:An iPad is not a dedicated controller for a soft synth anymore than a computer is designed specifically for a DAW.
May be we should call it a dedicated touch controller. because when talking about a dedicated hardware controller, I'm in the mood for real knobs, buttons, sliders, keys, pads, ribbon and other physical stuff. With the inclusion if the hardware add a touch screen as an addition feature, supporting the hardware. Otherwise, using a touch interface made me feel like playing with a software instead of a good ol' fashion hardware.
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isham
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Re: NI Komplete Kontrol

Post by isham » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:39 pm

Sorry if this point was already raised (I've tried to read all posts ): what about ableton releasing a keyboard based on Push functionalities and even better than Kontrol s serie ?
:mrgreen:

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