OSX + Live Audio Performance

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Stromkraft
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:32 pm

ansolas wrote:This sound sample might be more useful than words :)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/756 ... amples.mp3

I quickly recorded audio while switching scenes (no artistic meaning here:),
the click will always audible when immediately when I click a 'scene play button' or start a new scene with Push.
That does sound like a CPU overload or audio buffer underrun to me. You don't say anything about CPU load so I have to assume it was low? And for this recording it was all frozen tracks? That would leave something connected to audio interface timing or similar. Alternatively, if this is a glitch only hearable in a frozen track, or scene with any number of frozen tracks, it can be a variation of a bug I've encountered with frozen tracks. Is this is in Session or Arrangement mode or in both?

Did you have more of these nasty dropouts under heavier CPU load previously? Your original problem i mean. Or is this what you have had the whole time?
Last edited by Stromkraft on Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ansolas
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by ansolas » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:40 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
That does sound like a CPU overload or audio buffer underrun to me. You don't say anything about CPU load so I have to assume it was low? And for this recording it was all frozen tracks to? That would leave something connected to audio interface timing or similar. Alternatively, if this is a glitch only hearable in a frozen track, or scene with any number of frozen tracks, it can be a variation of a bug I've encountered wiht frozen tracks. Is this is in Session or Arrangement mode or in both?

Did you have more of these nasty dropouts under heavier CPU load previously? Your original problem i mean. Or is this what you have had the whole time?
The time of recording no tracks were frozen , but even with all tracks frozen it sounds like this.
CPU load is around 30% and according to the CPU Graph of OSX no core is overloaded.

I try to resample some tracks and remove the plugins to see if that has an effect.

Thank you very much for reading all this... , I really appreciate it.
I am curious , which BufferSize do you guys ?

Stromkraft
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:13 pm

ansolas wrote:
Stromkraft wrote: Did you have more of these nasty dropouts under heavier CPU load previously? Your original problem i mean. Or is this what you have had the whole time?
The time of recording no tracks were frozen , but even with all tracks frozen it sounds like this.
CPU load is around 30% and according to the CPU Graph of OSX no core is overloaded.

I try to resample some tracks and remove the plugins to see if that has an effect.

Thank you very much for reading all this... , I really appreciate it.
I am curious , which BufferSize do you guys ?
64 to 256 samples, sometimes when mixing 512. I think it's not good to automation sync to change my buffer size, but when recording I need short latency and when I'm mixing I can't have audio dropouts or even crackles. My machine is very slow though.

I have such audio issues also when CPU is not under heavy load. Sometimes, plug-ins like Native Instruments Razor (a Reaktor synth) really have to be tamed, but then it's a simple CPU load issue. Lesser voices, lesser quality and lesser playback sample rate (in Razor) and I'm good. I don't have these non-cpu related issues regularly, so don't see them as a big obstacle.

I've also noticed that lowering sample rate in the whole Live project gives me better latency (in theory it should be the other way around if my processor could handle it), but I can't use such rates for vocals and such I think. I need those breathy tones.
I suppose it's possible to mix qualities from different sessions but this will probably cause more issues in the mixing stage. So I'm usually forced to use lesser quality while composing and better when mixing and finalizing tracks.
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nowtime
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by nowtime » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:01 am

ansolas wrote:This sound sample might be more useful than words :)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/756 ... amples.mp3

I quickly recorded audio while switching scenes (no artistic meaning here:),
the click will always audible when immediately when I click a 'scene play button' or start a new scene with Push.
I used to get similar artifacts while launching from Launchpad if I had too many controller devices connected via USB.

nowtime
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by nowtime » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:01 am

Double post

ansolas
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by ansolas » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:41 am

nowtime wrote:
ansolas wrote:This sound sample might be more useful than words :)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/756 ... amples.mp3

I quickly recorded audio while switching scenes (no artistic meaning here:),
the click will always audible when immediately when I click a 'scene play button' or start a new scene with Push.
I used to get similar artifacts while launching from Launchpad if I had too many controller devices connected via USB.
I just have Push and a USB Korg micro Key hooked up, thank you for the hint tho, I will try to remove the Keyboard.

ansolas
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by ansolas » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:36 pm

Here a litte benchmark I did with Logic:

Image

NO Cracks and hickups!

I could even run it at 128 samples buffer ...

Stromkraft
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:41 pm

ansolas wrote:Here a litte benchmark I did with Logic: IMAGE

NO Cracks and hickups!

I could even run it at 128 samples buffer ...
So can you run a lesser version of this in Live 9? What are the results there specifically? Does crackling and dropouts disappear if you take down the load?
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M-bition
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by M-bition » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:06 pm

Like I said, I am thinking launching too many tracks in one scene is causing these clicks. Try less tracks and remove stop buttons in scenes with no clips in it.

Goddard
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Goddard » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:13 pm

Stromkraft wrote:(...)you can't expect OS X 10.10 to work (...)
I think this is the essence of the problem.
Yosemite, as well as earlier Mavericks is nothing, but iOS on steroids, turning your most advanced hardware into an iPhone...
Want to have an efficient and rock solid system? Switch to Snow Leopard (OS X 10.6).
Skål!
"Machines are the weapon employed by the capitalists to quell the revolt of specialized labor" Karl Marx

ansolas
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by ansolas » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:15 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
ansolas wrote:Here a litte benchmark I did with Logic: IMAGE

NO Cracks and hickups!

I could even run it at 128 samples buffer ...
So can you run a lesser version of this in Live 9? What are the results there specifically? Does crackling and dropouts disappear if you take down the load?
Nope the dropouts do not disappear.
I am still not sure what the issue is.

In live I get around 16 instances at the same settings before it get dropouts (vs. 19 with logic)

The strange part is with those 16 instances I can drive live up to 75% CPU load without any hickups.
I can even switch scenes.
So it must be definitely something else in the other Project which drives Live mad.
Or an interaction between Plugins.

I keep you posted:

Image

Stromkraft
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:16 pm

M-bition wrote:Like I said, I am thinking launching too many tracks in one scene is causing these clicks. Try less tracks and remove stop buttons in scenes with no clips in it.
Why would that even be if the CPU load is low?

It's still unclear to me if the dropouts, the crackles and these short clicks supplied by Ansolas are actually symptoms of the same or related issues.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stromkraft
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:19 pm

ansolas wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
ansolas wrote:Here a litte benchmark I did with Logic: IMAGE

NO Cracks and hickups!

I could even run it at 128 samples buffer ...
So can you run a lesser version of this in Live 9? What are the results there specifically? Does crackling and dropouts disappear if you take down the load?
Nope the dropouts do not disappear.
Can you please clarify if these dropouts are always like the "clicks" in your posted recording above? Or are they different or more severe under some circumstances?
Make some music!

ansolas
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by ansolas » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:22 pm

Stromkraft wrote:uts are always like the "clicks" in your posted recording above? Or are they different or more severe under some circumstances?
The clicks in the audio example could be seen as the most silent, I even got much more disturbing ones.

M-bition
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Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by M-bition » Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:30 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
M-bition wrote:Like I said, I am thinking launching too many tracks in one scene is causing these clicks. Try less tracks and remove stop buttons in scenes with no clips in it.
Why would that even be if the CPU load is low?

It's still unclear to me if the dropouts, the crackles and these short clicks supplied by Ansolas are actually symptoms of the same or related issues.
Out of experience. Because it happened to me. I have seen other people complaining about this to. Less tracks and removing those stop buttons helped a lot.
I see he has at least 19 tracks.
Launching them all at once in Session View might be the problem in combination with his gear.
So I think he should give it a shot.

Just remove one track at a time and listen if the problem persists.

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