OSX + Live Audio Performance

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
musiklipp
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 7:50 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by musiklipp » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:27 pm

Hi,

I have a similar problem.
I´m running a MBP Retina 15" 10.9.5 8GB RAM - Live 9.1.7 & Push
Audio Interface Metric Halo 2882

I get clicks even in a minimal setup (based on the default start-up-setup: 2Midi + 2Audio + 2 Return)
Only 1 Midi-track is armed. all other tracks are empty and contain no clips.

I only load a drum kit (session drum club). no additional or external FX.
I can play the drum kit live at any samplerate (down to 32) without any issue or click (with live in stop or play).
CPU is very low (2-6%).

now the weird thing:
live is stopped.
if I fire a clip using the clip play button or with push in session mode it clicks pretty loud. the intensity of the clicks go from "not there at all" at a buffer of 32 to "horrible and unusable" at 128. at 258 it´s all gone.
unfortunately I 32 doesn´t work for more complex sets including live audio-processing and m4l. 258 is too high for live audio.

if i start live´s transport (which also starts playback of the clip) it doesn´t click at any buffer-size.

when live is already playing i can fire clips or switch to another clip without quantization it also doesn´t clip.

I contacted the support about that issue. they where able to reproduce the same thing. but they didn´t have any solution ;-(

I just tried one thing. If I reduce the number of pads (or load a drum-rack with less pads) the clicking goes away. It anyway doesn´t make sense to me that I can play all pads, independent from the number, live without any problem, but starting playback by firing a clip "surprises" live and creates a click...


Does anybody experience the same?

best,
Karsten

ansolas
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 pm
Location: Earth ~ Europe ~ Germany ~ Cuxheaven

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by ansolas » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:30 pm

Hello,
I think such clicks are the result of CPU spikes.
Anyways, I switch to StudioOne running under Windows 8.1 where I have absolut no clicks at all even at high CPU usage.
I can even add plugins while playing the song without clicks.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:24 pm

musiklipp wrote: if I fire a clip using the clip play button or with push in session mode it clicks pretty loud.…

if i start live´s transport (which also starts playback of the clip) it doesn´t click at any buffer-size.

when live is already playing i can fire clips or switch to another clip without quantization it also doesn´t clip.

I contacted the support about that issue. they where able to reproduce the same thing.…
Does anybody experience the same?
I don't. How exactly were Ableton support "able to reproduce the same thing"? They had a Metric Halo? They started a clip from stopped mode and got clicks?

Do the clicks last?
Last edited by Stromkraft on Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

musiklipp
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 7:50 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by musiklipp » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:12 pm

I don´t think they had a Metric Halo interface. But they could reproduce the same clicks. It seems to be independent from the interface
Stromkraft wrote:They started a clip from stopped mode and got clicks?
yes. same weird behaviour with different buffer sizes.
Stromkraft wrote:Does the clicks last?
Once live in playing it´s ok.

what is your set-up that doesn´t click?

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:33 pm

musiklipp wrote: what is your set-up that doesn´t click?
While I've had crackles or dropouts for different reasons — due to requiring too much of my CPU, too low latency and a few unknown causes — they do not occur at all with the pattern you're describing. Where I start a clip does not seem to influence the presence of crackles when I have them. I've never encountered this on any machine.

Your described prerequisites seem much incomplete. You should describe step by step how anyone else can reproduce this.
Make some music!

musiklipp
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 7:50 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by musiklipp » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:04 pm

ok.
so this is the procedure:

open a default file (2midi + 2audio tracks)
load a drum kit (session drum club)
record a clip
stop live
fire the clip using the play-button of the clip or via push/launchpad session clip button
a click occurs on the first beat.

this doesn´t happen if i hit space, click on transport play or play on push to start playback (the clip is activated and live is stopped).
it also doesn´t click if live is playing and i start the clip afterwards (with or without quantization)

buffer settings seem to be relevant:
32smp---> no click
64smp---> soft click
128smp--> loud click
256smp--> no click


cheers,
Karsten

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:32 pm

musiklipp wrote:ok.
so this is the procedure:

open a default file (2midi + 2audio tracks)
load a drum kit (session drum club)
record a clip
stop live
fire the clip using the play-button of the clip or via push/launchpad session clip button
a click occurs on the first beat.

this doesn´t happen if i hit space, click on transport play or play on push to start playback (the clip is activated and live is stopped).
it also doesn´t click if live is playing and i start the clip afterwards (with or without quantization)

buffer settings seem to be relevant:
32smp---> no click
64smp---> soft click
128smp--> loud click
256smp--> no click
I think I know what you're talking about here. It's not crackles, but as you say one click. I have encountered this, but only in frozen tracks. I'll try to reproduce this. I'm not using the default template, so that may be why I haven't had this for quite a while.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:46 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
musiklipp wrote:ok.
so this is the procedure:

open a default file (2midi + 2audio tracks)
load a drum kit (session drum club)
record a clip
stop live
fire the clip using the play-button of the clip or via push/launchpad session clip button
a click occurs on the first beat.

this doesn´t happen if i hit space, click on transport play or play on push to start playback (the clip is activated and live is stopped).
it also doesn´t click if live is playing and i start the clip afterwards (with or without quantization)

buffer settings seem to be relevant:
32smp---> no click
64smp---> soft click
128smp--> loud click
256smp--> no click
I think I know what you're talking about here. It's not crackles, but as you say one click. I have encountered this, but only in frozen tracks. I'll try to reproduce this. I'm not using the default template, so that may be why I haven't had this for quite a while.
I can't reproduce this with any latency in my current template. Tried 64 samples and higher. I didn't have Session Drums installed, so tried both with Tremor and with "Kit-Core Session Dry". I did have other tracks installed. I will try with the beta later.

This could very well be a driver issue and that this problem isn't present with different latency settings make that more likely. Have you talked to Metric Halo? Can you try with a different audio interface so you can compare? Also try with another bit version, so if you use 32bit, try with 64bit and vice versa.
Make some music!

musiklipp
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 7:50 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by musiklipp » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:25 pm

I didn´t contact about this metric halo. their drivers are normally extremely stable.
i tried with the internal audio. it´s clicking as well. so i don´t think its the metric halo driver.

i tried to use the "Kit-Core Session Dry". with this kit it doesn´t click. i have the impression it is linked to the number of used pads.
If i use any of the "session drums studio" kits it clicks. they have all 32pads. the "Kit-Core Session Dry" has only 16. maybe that´s the problem.

could you try to use on of the "session drums studio" kits to see what happens?

i´ll try to use the 64bit version.

thanks for the help!

musiklipp
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 7:50 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by musiklipp » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:14 pm

no difference with 64bit...

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:28 pm

musiklipp wrote: could you try to use on of the "session drums studio" kits to see what
Sure, I have it here somewhere. Have been meaning to install it.
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Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:58 am

musiklipp wrote:
could you try to use on of the "session drums studio" kits to see what happens?
I tried the first 2 Punchy and British Vintage and there are no clicks at 64, 128, 256 or 512. Maybe there is some prerequisite on other machines than yours in order to reproduce this. Please keep us posted on how Ableton handles this bug.

I was meaning to bug report the frozen click issues I've had, but I haven't encountered them for quite a while, like 3 months. Or maybe I did and they fixed it.
Make some music!

musiklipp
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 7:50 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by musiklipp » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:20 am

Stromkraft wrote:
musiklipp wrote:
Punchy and British Vintage
Are those two in Session Drum Studio or Club? I have only Studio installed and I mine are named different.
do these packs also use more than 16pads?

it´s pretty mysterious...i´ll keep you updated

musiklipp
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 7:50 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by musiklipp » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:35 am

I installed Session Drums Club.

on my system (internal audio; buffer 128) it clicks.
;-(

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSX + Live Audio Performance

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:53 am

musiklipp wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
musiklipp wrote:
Punchy and British Vintage
Are those two in Session Drum Studio or Club?
Club.
Make some music!

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