Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:54 am

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:08 pm

.
.
.







.











.


































.




















.


















.



























.










.




































































































.
Last edited by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends on Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

garyboozy
Posts: 2568
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by garyboozy » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:59 pm

Summary: If you are running a Mac that uses a third-party SSD with TRIM enabled...
a bit clickbaity, that headline... should have added the bold bit above in the headline too.

isn't this is about making Trim Enabler software devs getting their kexts signed, for security & stability reasons? apple have typically gone about it in a shitty way, but it does seem to make sense - enabling Trim on my new Crucial SSD last week caused all sorts of glitchy oddness, so i'm not exactly sure whether the so-called benefits of Trim are worth it.

is there a definitive answer to the TRIM OR NOT question? it seems that most modern SSDs have their own garbage collection systems built-in anyway, so TRIM looks to be unnecessary... ?

ilya.soloviev
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:06 pm

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by ilya.soloviev » Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:28 pm

I don't really care as long as i don't need to mess around...

"The big takeaway here is that if you are running a third-party SSD as a boot drive, and you do have TRIM enabled, then you need to take steps before upgrading to Yosemite to make sure that your drive will continue to be accessible after the upgrade."

fishmonkey
Posts: 4082
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by fishmonkey » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:43 pm

they haven't 'killed' third-party SSD support, they never officially supported TRIM on third-party SSDs.

the TRIM enabler devs should have seen this coming when kext signing was introduced.
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

uthemus
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:23 pm
Location: LA

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by uthemus » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:27 am

I think I just heard my little WD Passport disk spinning delightfully to the news.

pencilrocket
Posts: 1718
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by pencilrocket » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:04 am

[Apple Data Disaster]
External HD Disaster - 2013
SSD Disaster - 2014
Image

ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:54 am

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:30 am

.
.
.







.











.


































.




















.


















.



























.










.




































































































.
Last edited by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends on Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:03 am

fishmonkey wrote:they haven't 'killed' third-party SSD support, they never officially supported TRIM on third-party SSDs.

the TRIM enabler devs should have seen this coming when kext signing was introduced.
OWC Mercury SSDs which are third party does not need Trim. They are among the best SSDs too. I knew about Trim since SSDs first arrived and always asked if people knew about this little detail when they got their "low-priced" SSDs. Few had an idea. About half got OWC at my advice.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Machinesworking
Posts: 11082
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:45 am

From the comments bellow the article:
This is completely the fault of the suppliers of Trim Enabler.

And had they checked out their software and assumptions during the Yosemite Beta Period, they could have warned their customers and better yet, provided a solution.

I'm writing this on a Mac running Yosemite, booted of a Fusion drive built using a 3rd party SSD.

Works just fine.

Glad I didn't waste my time on Trim Enabler.
Chicken Little "journalist" thinks the sky is falling because one company can't get their act together. :roll:

fishmonkey
Posts: 4082
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by fishmonkey » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:07 am

Stromkraft wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:they haven't 'killed' third-party SSD support, they never officially supported TRIM on third-party SSDs.

the TRIM enabler devs should have seen this coming when kext signing was introduced.
OWC Mercury SSDs which are third party does not need Trim. They are among the best SSDs too. I knew about Trim since SSDs first arrived and always asked if people though about this little detail when they got their "low-priced" SSDs. Few had an idea. About half got OWC at my advice.
the situation isn't as clear cut as OWC makes out.

OWC SSDs use Sandforce controllers, and one of the reasons OWC recommended against enabling TRIM was because an earlier version of the Sandforce firmware had a TRIM-related bug.

TRIM doesn't tend to help Sandforce controllers much as they rely on automatically compressing and decompressing data going to/from the drive, and hence use different garbage collection algorithms. the downside of this is that Sandforce-based SSDs tend to be slower with incompressible data. btw, Sandforce themselves actually recommend using TRIM.

the reliance on TRIM is definitely worth thinking about though, also because TRIM is only a SATA command. so if you are using an SSD over a PCIe, USB, Firewire, or Thunderbolt connection (e.g. in an external enclosure), then you don't have TRIM available either...
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:09 am

fishmonkey wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
the situation isn't as clear cut as OWC makes out.

OWC SSDs use Sandforce controllers, and one of the reasons OWC recommended against enabling TRIM was because an earlier version of the Sandforce firmware had a TRIM-related bug.

TRIM doesn't tend to help Sandforce controllers much as they rely on automatically compressing and decompressing data going to/from the drive, and hence use different garbage collection algorithms. the downside of this is that Sandforce-based SSDs tend to be slower with incompressible data. btw, Sandforce themselves actually recommend using TRIM.
After 3 years there doesn't seem to be a slowdown at all on OWC 256gb, so I'd say that is as clear cut as one could ask (20% free minimum as with all storage). I'm not sure about the smaller ones. Bigger is faster typically. I'm planning to get a 1TB SSD this winter.
Make some music!

fishmonkey
Posts: 4082
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by fishmonkey » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:21 am

you don't get that consistent performance for nothing though. if you run the Black Magic DiskSpeedTest on your drive, you will see what i mean about incompressible data being slower (that's the flipside of the Durawrite system).

on the other hand, if you use something like QuickBench, you'll see the maximum compressible data rates.
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

ambientidm
Posts: 400
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:57 am
Contact:

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by ambientidm » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:44 am

apple is moving away from all user upgrades unfortunately
i am running yosemite on my late 2011 mbp with a newly installed 1gig transcend jetdrive
no issues other than yosemite is buggy and safari is slow super buggy and awful

Buleriachk
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 3:52 am
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Contact:

Re: Yosemite kills third-party SSD support

Post by Buleriachk » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:14 am

I'm SO happy with my W ..... uh, oh, never mind... :)

Post Reply